Okay, now that I have your attention...

Has anybody noticed that his caddie helps him line up every shot, even putts!?!? (similar to probably 95% of the LPGA players) What is that all about?

First of all, why do pretty much all LPGA players have their caddie do that? and secondly, why does JB Holmes (a two-time WINNER on the PGA Tour) need help with his alignment?????

If Phil, Tiger, Sergio, etc. start doing that, i'm not going to watch golf anymore...seriously.


PS - Please don't let this topic turn into, "well i bet JB can hit further than you" or "i bet you wish you had the game JB has" (no kidding)

Actually many 'tour' pga players have their caddies help them....even Bones for Philly.

hmmmm maybe he does it because it helps him get his ball in the hole so he can win.

Doesn't matter how you do it as long as it gets done, and if it takes his caddie standing behind him maybe more guys should do it....

I'm not sure what your beef is with this.

If I had a caddy who was on my payroll I'd have him line me up on every shot too. It's just another advantage that a PGA professional has over the rest of us.

As my coach said to me the other day while working on my alignment, if touring pros need their caddies to help them align themselves, what chance do we have?

Did you forget that he got the win this year by having his caddie line up his putts? Even the birdie on the playoff hole to seal it.

yeah...I wouldn't switch up that area of his game - not one bit.

I play better with a caddy. So why not take advantage of it? That is not JB's Problem, his problem is that he takes forever to hit a shot, stick him with Ben Crane and Furyk, damn that would be one twitchy threesome....

Yeah, I agree with the earlier posters.If I had a caddie and he could help me by helping line me up then by all means Id have him/her do so.These guys are playing for A LOT of money.One missed putt could cost those guys a hundred grand.

Only as the final group, and only if the Rules Officials enforce the 45 second rule with cattle prods.

I am totally on board with this one. What the hell was he thinking having his caddy line him up?? He belongs playing with girls, who do not have the eyesight that men do. See, it's a scientific fact that women have poor eyesight and field of vision. Why, just the other day my wife tried putting up a picture on the wall, looked like it was put up by a blind person having a seizure.

Men are known to have superior eyesight, and thus, JB Holmes has broken one of the man rules. You don't ask another man for help with directions!!!

I think it just shows that its not only us regular joe's who fight alignment problems. If he needs a little assistance, so be it. Who am I to tell a 2-time PGA Tour winner how to play his game? I would imagine that if I had somebody to line me up for every shot I would be able to make a much more confident swing knowning exactly where I am aligned before the shot. To each their own though...

his caddy is his employee and it's not against the rules. but since girls do it.....it must be stoopid.


quit watching golf because a caddy lines someone up?

whatever.

Who cares, all the big guys Tiger Phil VJ get advice from their caddies on what club works best on a hole right . I'm not going to bang on anyone for getting any help on the course that is within the rules of golf last i check JB he's 10th in FedEx Points, 43rd in the world and has made over a $$$$ Million

I agree it doesn't look great to have the caddies line up the player, it probably should be the player's sole responsibility but it's not currently against the rules. I think I recall some part of the discussion from the USGA years ago (when they made the caddy move away from behind the player before the shot is struck) that they still wanted the caddy to be able to indicate the line of play on blind shots, etc.
The related issue is slow play, but at least the LPGA has made some progress on that issue with their new tougher policy. Wish the PGA Tour would follow suit.

If its not cheating and it gives you an advantage then go for it.

I would still like to see one tourny a year that the pro's have to play without a caddy. Maybe let the caddies have their own tourny whilst they aren't caddying(sp). I just think it would be fun to watch and to see if anyone in particular rises to the top that normally isn't there.

I would think, now get this, I think that some do that simply because THAT IS HOW THEY MAKE A LIVING..I don't know, that sounds pretty good to me.

Only thing I say to myself when I see that on either the LPGA or PGA is:
"Dang. I wish I had someone that knew what they were doing following me around to line me up."


I see what you are saying, it does seem to take some of the inherent skill out of the game by doing this. But that is just one difference between "tournament golf" and the game we play.

The player still needs to execute the shot.

Even if I had a caddy line me up on every shot and every putt I wouldn't be on the PGA Tour and neither would 99.99% of those that post here.

How's it any different than having a caddy give a yardage to a player, or tell him which way the freakin' wind is blowing?

I've always wondered why so many women do this compared to just a handful of the men. But if it helps, who cares? Have you ever noticed how much trouble JB has just getting to the ball, tons of stutter steps. He must have always had alignment troubles. Anyway, you are just jealous because JB hits it so far by you.

I wish you would have quoted me on the rest of my post!
Again, I'd love to have someone help me on my putts when I play.

Caddies do a lot for players, -some more than others. Reading putts and aligning a player are two skill sets that we as amateur players don't have another set of eyes. Who's to say how much just those two aspects could help the "average" player? JB with someone reading his putts, aligning him, AND using a belly putter is about as robotic as it gets. He'd still kick arse in a casual round, but I'm sure it calms the nerves to have someone else try to take these variables out of the putt/shot when under tournament pressure.

Again, Tournament Golf vs. amatuer weekend golf. I only know the latter.

who knew there were so many women on this board??

seriously, it doesn't slightly annoy anybody?? i find that very hard to believe.

i must be 100% opposite than EVERYBODY else, but i could not stand having someone behind me telling me to move 1 inch this way or that way right before i start my swing. i would feel like a F$#%ING robot!

I think the women do it because I have never met a woman that can make a decision in a timely manner. It helps if someone else can tell them where to line up so they don't end up on the clock.

when i am working out on the range and find myself missing my targets...i pull out an old shaft to help with my alignment. honestly though, it's never my feet....always my shoulders. the videotape doesn't lie.


i can't say whether i would employ a caddy to line me up every time i had to hit the ball....but i would def. put him back there if i was having issues. no harm no foul. and if by chance i am doing it on tv...and some of you are watching....can't say i would be concerned about your opinions on my pre-shot routine. but humans being humans.....all fair game.







also....


those darn women. i mean seriously....what is it with them?

If I was on tour, I'd hire a Victoria's Secret model as my caddy to "line me up". I would get more TV coverage than Tiger too...

I agree that some man rule is being broken here by having your caddy line you up... help read the putt? Sure. standing behind you and telling you where to move to be lined up? not so sure I like it... That ought to be a skill you need to exhibit in order to be considered a pro golfer...

Agree that it is 100% necessary on the LPGA, or they might never make their minds up.

wouldn't a similar skill to be a professional golfer be ...





reading a green? i mean how did they get there in the first place? did their mommies read it for them...all the way through junior golf and college?



how is okay for another grown adult to read your 5 foot putt but not okay for them to make sure your toes and shoulders are lined up to your target?

yeah, that's all fine. put a shaft down, watch the playback on video, have another set of eyes look at you on the range and see if they can figure out what you're doing, etc. but those are things that you do at the range.

i'm sorry, i'm just not a technical player, and i find it very annoying for a PROFESSIONAL golfer to have to be lined up properly.

i would just prefer to watch Bubba Watson or Brandt Snedeker because those are the guys that just go by feel and just HIT THE BALL.

PS - what happens (and i'm really being serious about this) if a player who gets aligned by their caddie hits a ball into the woods and has to hit a sweeping hook or a big cut through the trees etc. does their caddie still line them up for that kind of a shot?

i completely agree with you. FEEL is the best indicator for me...but i am not going to slight a person because they use different methods. annoying...possibly....but that's life.


as long as they're efficient with their little assistance.....go with it.

Perhaps if you'd get over yourself and take some advice you could improve your game. I assume you don't take lessons because they will tell you to adjust your swing as well?

It annoys me too. Not that I care that he does it, but as far as TV viewing is concerned, I don't like it. Much like Furyk's preshot routine. It is not enjoyable to watch.

Helping read a putt, pulling a club ok...but I don't care for the extremes some players go to with their caddies providing help whether it be PGA,LPGA, or Champions tour players. For me, it makes for horrible TV watching. Deep down I think less of a player the more he has to interact with his caddy prior to hitting a shot. I guess I'm just kind of old school. I even liked it more when NFL QB's called their own plays.

Alignment sticks on the range (I've got'em too), GPS units and laser range finders during practice rounds, Pelz's computer stimpmeter gizmo, wind gauges. Where's Arlen Specter when you need him.

+1
Plus it helps calm their nerves if they have someone to argue with.

what are you even talking about?? who's trying to give me advice that i'm rejecting?

I agree with you, but I'll take it a step further. I don't think any player on any tour should be allowed to have their caddy line them up for a shot or putt. That's part of hitting the shot. If you can't line up properly there is a chance you're going to mis-hit the shot. That's part of the game. Having someone line you up was not something the founders of the game ever thought would happen. Who knew? Change the rules. When you've got the club in your hand it's up to you to line up and hit the shot where it should go. No help from your caddy.

Does that mean that there would be two hillbillies on the LPGA?

I kid, I kid.

On topic-if he needs his caddie to line him up, line him up. I'd do it if I knew the player was going to pay me 10% of his finishes.

check the alignment of the people you play with - I'll bet that 95% of them are lined up way right of the actual target they want to hit - that's why some pros make sure that their lines are going in the right direction - there's no point hitting a perfect 300 yard drive into the trees due to bad alignment,,,that's money out of pocket for no reason - if I was a tour player I'd make sure that my caddy keeps a close eye on my alignment which tends to creep towards the right also if I'm not careful.

My point exactly. Alignment is an important part of the golf swing. You should not be allowed to have an outside party help you with your golf swing during the tournament. That's what you do on the driving range. Having said that, what the heck, you might as well take advantage of a defect in the rules. Perhaps they'll change that in coming years.

Dumbest. Post. Ever.

Its the time it takes that gets me going. Especially on the LPGA side.
At last years Womens British Open it was rediculous: some players had their caddy pace out most of their shots that were anything up to 150yds long.
It was played at St Andrews where in the summer it doesn't get dark until after 11 at night and on one of the days (no rain break as far as I remember) they didn't get all the rounds finnished!!!!

The practice needs to be outlawed on all tours. A pro should be able to line up to the target without any outside influence.

Tit1455

Again, THEY HAVE A LIVING TO MAKE ON THE TOUR, I would like to see you try and line up a putt that will pay for your family and living and payments and other goods and not miss it. You can't, I even bet you would miss a 5 foot putt for 5 bucks when he HAS to make it for 50G's. Thing is, he is pro, you are not. Dumbest post ever, why would you event want to know why. I guess Tiger and Phil and Nicklaus are not real golfers because they do not live to you expectations of a "Real" Golfer like yourself. Lets see where you are in about 5 years with your golfing.

Hate to burst your bubble but I think you would find that most of the tour players lean on their bag guy's a lot more than most people realize or comes across on the tube.

If you heard Phil's interview yesterday he openly appreciated great reads on every putt and the difficult windage.
I would live to hear an entire rounds dialogue with a caddy miked.

Let's face it. These guy's are good.And I do mean the caddy's.
They must have the most multi-tasking job description on the planet.

Cheers,
Brad

Following this logic, can't a PROFESSIONAL golfer tell which way the wind is blowing, or determine how far he hits his own ball, or read a green, or determine what type of shot is called for? The answer is probably "Of course." But caddies help with this stuff all the time. I can't speak for Holmes or anyone else, but with my astigmatism, I KNOW that I am not seeing things as they truly are (direction and depth-wise) once I'm over the ball, and so I'd love for someone else to tell me that I was, in fact, on the line I hoped to be on.

I simply thought that a caddy lining up the golfer was not allowed on the PGA Tour (since I never saw it done) and WAS allowed on the LPGA (since everyone seems to do it). Now that I know it's allowed, I think it's a great idea. If it were deemed illegal by the PGA tomorrow, I could understand it. In the meantime, I bet it would help me make a ton more putts, and wouldn't care if someone thought it wasn't "manly" or something absurd like that.

Can your playing partner do this for you in match play? Or can only a caddy do it?

/< / /2 /<

I have more of a beef with JB Holmes' pre-shot routine and his pace of play more than anything else. It's just hard to watch.
(Please save all the "You're not a pro and you're not playing behind him and you couldn't make a 3' putt to make $50,000 and you suck" comments, I agree, I'm guilty as charged on all those counts).

Perhaps more PGA players practice this "caddy-alignment" than we think. Maybe it's more pronounced with JB because he simply takes longer to hit the ball, with the bobbing back-and forth and whatnot. There's just more footage of him and his pre-shot stuff. The cameras really only follow a dozen-or-so players, so it could be more widespread among other players less televised.

If it's not against the rules, I have no problem with it.

[/quote]
Can your playing partner do this for you in match play? Or can only a caddy do it?

/< / /2 /<
[/quote]


You may receive advice from your partner in match play, so yes he could do this. But lets hope this doesn't become common practice. Most players are already too slow.

it's not "against the rules" for the Sergio to re-grip his club 47 times before he hit a shot (like back in 2003-2005). did it drive me nuts watching him play? yes! so what's the problem with my opinion??

i UNDERSTAND that JB is playing for money and that he's not breaking rules, blah blah blah (yall don't have to state the obvious OVER AND OVER again). i'm just saying that his caddie aligning him during his pre-shot routine drives me crazy! he is the ONLY SINGLE PGA Tour player (that i personally have EVER seen) that has his caddie do that on EVERY shot.

he isn't the only PGA Tour player that gets alignment help from is caddy....i'd put money on it. i can't name names because i couldn't tell you who but they are out there. you may not see it on tv but it happens...every event...every week. i've seen it. and to be honest, when i did see it, i laughed because you never see it except for the ladies on tv.


but it does happen. it's not illegal. i'd use it if i was is that position and need the assistance. i can't believe professional players need as much help reading putts on the greens as the do.....but they get the help. what is the difference?

I've sometimes daydreamed about what I would do if I were good enough to need/afford a caddie. I'm pretty sure I would have one qualification above all others -- reading breaks and lining up putts. I can hit a putt where I aim it -- better than most people. I just don't often know where to aim it. If I had to pick a caddie, I'd try to find the best putt-reader anywhere. I'd carry the bag if I had to, but I'd want somebody telling me where and how hard to hit the putt.

I can read a yardage book. I can't read greens.

I think i recall Tiger saying something like "I had Steve read every putt for me except for the last one on the 18th."

I have to admit though ... either TV directors love showing JB and his caddy lining up his shots, or he is exceptionally slow. You see it every now and then with every player, but with him it's every time and a long time.
I agree with others though, he makes a seriously good living out there. As long as he's not breaking any rules or etiquette, i don't have a problem with it.