Appologies if this has been done before but it's a debate I quite enjoy.
Is he the best ever or not?

Just have a look my friend (search) - it rages on here every 2 seconds and I don't want to start another lol

lol what was the outcome?

i think the outcome was that some people think tiger walks on water, while others wish he wouldn't cuss so much while doing it.

Pretty much.

You'll also get slated for not including Hogan in the discussion.

Don't forget Johnny Miller........I mean, he DID shoot 63 at Oakmont.




































































































.......I couldn't resist stirring the pot a little bit.

-mini

Some people love Tiger, More people admire him, Many people loathe the coverage he gets on TV, Many people can't wait for him to retire so that golf can go back to way it used to be, and Many people loathe him and his existence.

If you really want to stir it, add Mac O'Grady or Moe Norman's name into it.

Some will tell you that one of these two are the best ever when in fact one's a bit loopy and the other can't putt (just kidding before I get the backlash!).

Top Ten Golfers

I went looking for it before bud - then got sidetracked, finally found it (the main one recently)

Have fun and add ur 2 cents, or 3 cents cos ur from NZ hahaha

is the Pope Chinese

of course , Tiger is the greatest ever ... Jack played before golf was popular and dont get me started on Hogan , he would just be a Fuyurk type these days ....

Tiger is the greatest ever , its nothing to even argue anymore

Absolutely without question!

Nope. IMO Jack is still the greatest ever. Tiger most certainly has the potential to become the best ever. But for now the Bear still has the lead.

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I agree with Placebo and I'm a Tiger fan!

Is Tiger the best player ever?

So your answer is no?

There are too many factors for us to ever find the answer. I personally believe that Jack had tougher competition than Tiger but one could argue that Tiger has caused the weakness in his own opposition. Who knows?

If you're judging it on Major Championships then as it stands, Jack is the better player. I believe Tiger will over take Jack's Major record very soon but I can guarantee that it won't stop these discussions from happening.

It simply makes no sense to campare athletes from different eras and decide who was the bast of all. Tiger's the best player of this era. To say more is speculation.

Steve

The real question is, has Tiger's game peaked yet? Will he do something, go on some kind of a run that leaves everyone with their jaws on the floor. Will Tiger win 5 consecutive majors? A proposterous thought for anyone but him but if you think about it, many sports legends have a peak year or 2 in which everything really clicks and they just leave you awestruck. While these peak years don't necessarily get them to the level of being the undeniable greatest is their sport, I think that if Tiger can elevate his game from here, there will be no doubters. I think that even if he breaks Jack's record, he needs to do something like this to be the undeniable greatest.

Tiger is hitting an age when I would think his skills will peak. Say between now and age 37. It's just a question of how high that peak gets. Hopefull the knee won't be much of a factor, that would be a shame.

Of course, if Tiger has peaked, there will always be questions. I think he is the best, but I never say the other greats in their prime.

Peak at 31??? Zowie. Hold that thought for ten years.

Is Tiger the best ever? What would Jack do with Tiger's equipment? What would Tiger do with Jack's competition? What would Hogan do with Tiger's body? What would Tiger do with Snead's hat? We need to start a wiki on that theme.

I grew up with Jack and the gang. There were certainly more personalities then than now. Our boys hold their breaths and erase their emotions, with only a few exceptions, like Boo and John Daly. That's what makes Johnny Miller such a breath of fresh, frank air -- he's not a programmed robot with the cliche of the day. "I shot a 63, dammit, and in case you forget, I shot a 63 at the Oak and I EARNED it and deserve it, and, by the way, Jim Furyk swings like a marionette on a bender, plus he never shot a 63....not like my 63, nooooo way! So I remember talking to Bobby Jones one day, and he said if Jesus ever had a golf swing it would be just like mine! Well, I said, I can't walk on water, but I'll take that as a compliment....."

Golf greatness is measured by majors, professional majors. Jack has more professional majors.

Jack also will have more 2nd place finishes in majors too. Which is the icing on the cake.

Jacks average place finishes in majors are therefore above Tigers.

Tiger is the best golfer in the world today, but only time will tell if he surpasses Jack.
Tiger will tell you the same.

Calling Tiger the greatest ever is putting the cart in front of the horse. I won't be surprised if he beats the major record, however I've seen too many sure things fall short.

Just a thought:
If todays competition is inferior to yesteryears, shouldn't Tiger have at least the won the traditional Grand Slam?

he's gotta have more majors, but more important 5+ US Opens.. then ok

Just a thought:
If todays competition is inferior to yesteryears, shouldn't Tiger have at least the won the traditional Grand Slam?

There's more to competition today than merely the players and their caliber and statistics. There's equipment, square grooves, graphite, the media, egos, money, pressure because of all of it, too many decisions (fashion, trainer, swing coach, agent), audience expectations, better course conditions, etc.

All any generation is stuck with are statistics. But I don't think they are the only measure of greatness.

Tiger Woods is superior to Jack Nicklaus in two areas of the game, according to fellow American golfing great Billy Casper.

World number one Woods and 18-times major winner Nicklaus, whose career overlapped much of Casper’s, are widely regarded as the greatest golfers of all time.

“They both are just unbelievable players but Tiger has two ingredients which Jack Nicklaus didn’t have,” Casper, 66, told reporters on Monday at a media day for next month’s Buick Open where Woods is a twice champion.

“One, Tiger has such a superior short game. Jack’s short game, other than putting, was just a little above average.

“And two, Tiger’s imagination to play shots that nobody else has played, try to play those shots and then bring them off is just amazing. Jack didn’t have that imagination.

“A lot of us maybe try to play those shots and once in a while we bring them off,” added Casper, who was speaking at Warwick Hills Golf & Country Club in Grand Blanc, Michigan where the Buick Open will be staged from June 26-29.

“But it’s fun to watch Tiger accomplish these shots—they just amaze everybody.”

Casper, a three-times major winner who piled up 51 titles in a glittering PGA Tour career, gave an example of Woods’s creativity from a recent Buick Invitational in San Diego.

“In the final round he hit it over the green, his third shot, caught a flier or something and the ball was sitting in the muck and the grass,” recalled Casper who was considered the best putter of his era.

“And one of the commentators said: ‘Well, he’ll be lucky to hit the green.’ The other one said: ‘If he gets it within 30 feet, it’ll be a miracle.’

“Well, Tiger hit the shot and he put it about a foot from the hole. He just is an incredible individual.”

Woods, a 13-times major champion, won the Buick Open in 2002 and 2006.


Billy Casper said this..I don't know if Tiger is the best ever..he's definitely entertained a lot of people since 1996...and before then

Whose career would you rather have? Since Tiger's isn't done yet you'll have to project. I'll take Tiger's.

I believe Tiger to be the most DOMINANT player in the history of golf. GREATEST??? That remains to be seen, but if he continues on this pace...

Kevin

He is the best player, but does not have the resume to make the claim....yet....it will happen...he is awesome and I am glad I am around to see it from it's beginning.

Tiger appearance even changed the whole concept of course design. Think about it. He will outperform everybody else, even Nicklaus, who I admire as the best past era golfer.

BTW, I saw Billy Casper playing a 590 yards par 5. The amazingly long drive went down the pines in a very difficult lie. From there he played the drive again and found the green 270 yards away! We are talking Persimmon drivers and Balata balls here. Then he sank a long putter for an unforgettable eagle. I saw each shot with my own eyes no more than 7 yards from him and still can’t believe it. Billy Casper was somebody.

I talked with Hal Sutton about 2 months ago and someone asked him if he thought Tiger had a chance at winning this past Masters and Hal Said, " Tiger has about a 50-60% chance of winning every time he tee's it up" He also had his Scotty Cameron Newport in his hands that he beat Tiger with some time back.

Tiger didnt win this last masters, but I still think he is the best ever, he has almost reached Jacks record in a 10 year period. Im not some crazy Tiger fan that thinks he cant be beat but I do like his talent and ability to play this great game of golf. Tiger gets my vote.






What about David Duval.........lol

No!

Don Donatello is the greatest player ever.....he just hasn't reached his potential. I mean does Tiger call his shots. No. Donatello does, so he is the best ever. IMO. (Don Donatello wrote this)

Actually Anika has won more than Tiger but she just retired.

The old timers playing ancient clubs were pretty staggering. I am not taking anything away from Tiger and the modern players. What the players in the 1920's to the 1970s were able to do with the old clubs is amazing.

Tiger is the best player ever, period!!!!!!!!

A lot of people would say yes, a lot of people would say Jack because he has won the most majors, I am in that category becasue it is the modern standard of how greatness is gauged. That being said I think Tiger will probably win about 22 majors before he is done. I see golf more in an historical context in that someone was always considered the greatest throughout history until some one knocked them off the top. Since it is hard to compare eras I would say the following people are the greatest ever:

Young Tom Morris
Harry Vardon
Bobby Jones
(Some would include Hogan next, some would include Nelson or Snead as well, these 3 dominated this era in different ways)
Nicklaus
Tiger

I understand your points and appriciate them, however playing with the equipment of the 1970's was not THAT difficult, in fact many times they shot the same scores they did today. The courses were generally shorter, and the greens generally slower, but the players of those days hit the sweet spot often just like many people do today. I think that using terms like staggering and amazing is giving a little too much credit to modern equipment, in fact the average handicap has not gone down that much over the years, if at all. You ought to pick up some old school clubs on ebay for cheap if you dont have access to them and play a round with them, you might want to play tees a little shorter than you play now, but I bet you will find that your score is not that much different, especially if you give your self some time to practice with them, it still mostly comes down to the short game.

Tiger's the best ever. It's not even close.

WW

I am not going to say that he may not be the best ever, but to make a statement that "it's not even close" is a very subjective point of view, that to me seems very close minded. I actually do think it is very close, as to who is the greatest ever, especially if you played on a variety of courses. Hogan would kick Tigers a** on a US Open course 8 out of 10 times, while Tiger would probably throttle Hogan 8 out of 10 times at Augusta. Nicklaus would probably be neck and neck with him on about any course. Just because you are blasted with non stop Tiger TV/internet/magazine coverage 24/7 doesn't mean that he is automatically better than everyone who came before him. Don't confuse jack Niclaus with Ernie Els, Vijay or Phil, he would have dominated these guys just like Tiger does today.

It looks that way, but shouldn't we wait 'til he's retired/off the tour to make a final assesment? He certainly is headed in that direction, though... Also, he really has no competition to speak of. It's like the Harlem Globetrotters vs. the Generals (or whatever the "joke" team name is who's supposed to basically lose 99% of the time).

i hate it when people argue that yesterdays competition is better than today, that is ridiculous, the players of today work harder, have better technology, have all the necessary resources to be great golfers, they work out more than guys of the past, they have better swing coaches, and from what i can tell most of them work really hard at all aspects of the game, they arent bad or anything, they are just up against the best to ever play the game, the field from 1 - 125 is unbelievable, they just look bad because tiger is so nasty, if he broke both his legs and could never play again i would still believe that he was the best golfer to ever walk the planet, regardless of majors etc.

I,too, have often brought this question up and my opinion is: it depends on what "generation" golfer you ask.For instance,I am 41 years old and have been playing golf since high school.I remember when Jack won Augusta in 1986 and my "first tournament" I ever went to {besides Masters practice rounds which were "walk up" in those days} was the 1991 Ryder Cup at Kiawah Island,SC. To asnswer your question,IMHO, I believe time will proove that Tiger Woods is the best player ever.Barring injury or a total David Duvall "meltdown" he will break Jacks majors won mark with ease.He dominates every facet of the game.He came in "second" at this years Masters with,what he said, was the worst putting tournament he's ever had.His short game is impeccable.There isnt a single shot he cant hit.His driving accuracy could use some work but he is so good getting up and down that it really dosent hurt him.He is "cock strong" and not fat and tubby like others.He has been working towards this his whole entire life and I just dont see him not doing it.I would rank him "second" ever of all time TODAY but he will have to break Jacks major mark before I say he IS the best ever.He will be though.

The talent is, dare I say, "watered down", in this era.

Evidence?

Jacks era included three talents that were able to win majors, many majors.
Player - 9
Watson - 8
Palmer - 7

You cannot name anyone from todays era that is capable of winning those amounts of majors outside of Tiger.

Come major time, the only person expected to be in contention to win is Tiger. Back during the Jack years, you had four talents who can win any major at any given time.

Thats the difference today. There are no major contenders but Tiger. I'll give you that Tiger is the Jack of today, however the rest of the field isn't doing the job Player, Watson, or Palmer were doing to Jack.

Well said, I think that there are many more people today who can win, but the top level competion is just not as mentally strong. I think sometimes that all the swing coaches, sports psychologists, video etc. sometimes causes these guys to overthink it. Sometimes just digging it out of the dirt makes you stronger. Who is tougher coming down the stretch with a tourney on the line, Ernie snap hook Els, or Phil push slice Mickelson, versus Lee practice all day Trevino or Gary 1000 set ups a day Player. I would go with the old school guys personally.

I respect your opinion and points. I won't call them close minded as a result.

WW

been discussed 1,000 (or more) times, but why not...

I guess it depends upon your criteria of what constitutes "best ever."

Majors? Wins? Dominance and margin of victory? How good the competition is during your era? Impact on the sport, transcendence of the sport, etc.?

I am leaning towards Tiger as the best ever.

I admire him and think he's amazing but I still always want someone else to win, just for a change. I expect when he's past it and comes back and wins the masters at 46 I'll root for him though.

Its difficult for anyone younger than about 50 to compare Jack and TW:
Those of us who grew up after Jack got old and weren't aware of golf when he was at his peak find it tough to believe that anyone could ever have been as dominant as TW is today.

I don't buy that stuff about there being more other "winners" around in Jack's day (Arnie, Watson, Trevino etc) whereas TW's contemporaries are all wet chokers (Phil, Ernie, Vijay etc etc). It might well be that TW would just have thrashed all of them and that Phil is just as good as Arnie or Watson ever were. We won't ever know.

As far as comparing Hogan or Jones to TW its even harder. They played at a time when hardly anyone played golf so the competition was so much easier. They might both have shone in our era too but maybe not. Again we will never know

I don't think it matters what era, by how much, or level of competition. This man has 64 professional golf tournaments wins, 13 major championships, and has been named PGA Tour Player of the Year nine times; and he has been playing for how long? What ever measuring stick you want to use, it is just a matter of time before he will transcend anyone's criteria and without question be the BEST EVER!

I have a set of early 1970s Wilson Dynapower with 1, 3 and 5 woods. I need to put new grips on. I had these when I was in my late 20s and bought them used. Probably 7 or 8 year old clubs at the time I bought them around 1980. I played with them for 4 years then dropped golf for over 15 years! Sam Snead played with Wilsons like this set.

These old Wilson irons look like modern forged irons or blades. The clubs also have pretty good True Temper shafts. I would guess the only thing holding me back would be the driver. The 5 W wood (real wood) is a bomber and the 3 W is not bad. I am going to bite the bullet and get them regripped.

Still - I wonder about the clubs guys like Byron Nelson played with.

tiger's place will only be known in about 20 years...
but of this generation it is without question.

like other true greats its always tough to compare eras

Tiger has changed the game... Left his mark and history will tell his tale.

Like Jones, Hogan, Snead, Jack,

Its really nice to watch greatness though isn't it?

I consider myself a neutral party b/c I was not a Tiger fan when he first came out and started to dominate the world of golf. But I really have come to admire not only the guy's game but how he presents himself in the publc eye. So on to the question:
Is Tiger the best ever??

YES. Considering nobody else has ever been as good as him, that would mean he's the best ever!! Seriously though, he's raised the bar to levels unseen in the game of golf. He's so good that he has actually made everyone in the game of competative golf better. Look at the guys that are winning on Tour and worldwide, some of these guys are not even in the top 100 in the world but can win on any given week - this is part of the Tiger Effect. Jack certainly was great and probably could have been on par or real close to Tiger if he was in his prime during this era(w/ the latest in technology for clubs and balls, etc.) but I still think Tiger is the best. Even Jack has said Tiger is the best - that right there says it all.

It is fairly ridiculous to compare players across eras because it is impossible to factor in all the variables - level of competition, equipment, course conditions, etc, etc.

For instance, if Bobby Jones had enjoyed the advantage of playing with steel shafts rather than hickory shafts (that changed with the weather), then how many more championships would he have won in his era?

Did Tiger have the same level of competition as Ben Hogan who regularly went head-to-head with Snead?

Courses were not nearly as pristine as they are now. What impact did that have on the players at the time?

How about travel? Put a few of today's players on a train or ship for days at-a-time and then expect them to perform at their peak and then we'd see a fair comparison.

Not to mention, what if Bobby Jones had played golf for a living, or even just played beyond his 28th birthday......then how good could he have been?

What if walter hagen had had 4 majors to play every year? Would he have won more than the 11 with which he is credited?

Tiger is certainly the greatest golfer I have ever seen play, and may very well be the best of all time. I certainly think he is, but golf has evolved dramatically over the years, and its difficult to compare the eras, especially since the criteria has changed so much over time.

I think, in time,Tiger will proove to be the best player ever but only because he has a "goal" to break Jacks records.Barring health issues I cant see him not breaking Jacks records.I grew up with Jack and Arnie as my "hero's" and if they had the equiptment that Tiger has now.....it's scary what Jack would/could have done.I think the tour,now,is stronger top to bottom than it was in the 70's,etc as just about anyone out there can win on any given week/course where as Jack really only had a handful of people to worry about.Both Jack and Tiger intimidate the hell out of their opponents.For NOW...JACK.In 10 years,most likely Tiger.Even though Johnny Miller shot 63 at Oakmont {not taking anything away from him} he didnt dominate the competition like Tiger did in 2000 at Pebble.Winning the US Open by 12 shots is.....well....dominance.If he could get his driver worked out and be a bit more accurate it really would be scary what he would do.I dont know what Jacks winning percentage was but I think Tiger wins,like,once every 3 tournaments he plays.His winning percentage,Im guessing,is much better than Jacks but Tiger hasnt shown he can come from behind on the Sundays as often as I think he could/should.He's just not used to having to play "catch up".I knew this kid {T} was special just by his Am. career.Im not the biggest Tiger fan in the world but I give him credit.He is so good because of what he puts into his game with practice,etc.Ill be curious to see how well he does after such a long layoff at Torrey Pines.Id venture to say he's probably out there now.It's pretty much a "winless debate" at this point and only time will tell.Just my 2 cents. I will say,I respect everyone on the earlier list very much.They all had/have game.Wish Jack would play a few champions tour events though {like Arnie still does on occasion} because that tour needs him {and Greg Norman} badly.