Anyone know why Cink got DQ'd? I had him on my team this week. This guy is killing me this year. I had him for his big collapse as well. Anyway, any info would be cool.

Apparently he violated a rule that says if you are standing in a bunker and your ball is on the fringe and you hit into another bunker and then rake the sand of the bunker that you are standing in, you are testing the similar sand.
It is 13-4-something. it is a 2 stroke penalty...

He had signed his scorecard already and when talking to his playing partner about bizarre rules that can get you DQ'd, he realized that he may have violated the rule. He called over a rules official and when he talked to the rules official, he was made aware that he did indeed violated the rule and since he had signed his scorecard, it was incorrect which DQ'd him on the spot...

Not sure if that makes sense, but just trying to remember what the golf channel said...

He was talking to Zach JOhnson and they were discussing bizarre rulings. Zach said, did you know that if you are in a bunker and hit the ball into another (lets say 200 yards away...or right next to it) and you proceed to rake the bunker you are in, it is violation of rule 13-???? that states it would be "testing the playing surface of a similar hazard". This was during the round today.....and Cink had done it the day prior....and had already signed his scorecard....which resulted in a DQ.

Talk about slowing play in a situation like this...can you imagine playing in one of your clubs tournament and having to walk all the way back to the original bunker to rake it....after you play out of the second one?

I am sick and tired of some of the rules of golf. Must be the goofiest rules of any sport. Cant tap down a spike mark, give me a break!

great, I played Cink this week too. Six of my eight are now done for the week.

Kevin,

That was the information on TGC. Apparently his ball was in the fringe, but he was in the bunker when he hit it. Since it landed in another bunker about 200 yards away, he can't rake the sand as it considered as testing a similar hazard...

Another sensible rule there.

Right up with not being able to tap down spike marks or use a towel to protect your clothing if you play a shot from your knees.

Perhaps they should introduce a 2-shot penalty for inappropriate usage of common sense?

He was in the bunker...hitting a ball outside of the bunker. On TV they said they were asking players if they had ever done it and not taken the penalty and several (nameless) said they bet it happens every week. Cink is taking the position that he will take the fall here and use it to demonstrate that a rule should be changed.

That's correct. His ball was out of a FW bunker, but he was standing in it. He then proceeded to hit into a greenside bunker, and raked the FW bunker. That, according to the rules, is "testing" the sand.

IMO, has to be one of the most stupid decisions/rules in golf. In tourney play like this it wouldn't matter much because Cink could walk up and hit his next shot before his caddy ranks the FW bunker, but if you don't have a caddy, you're either going to have to run back 200 yards, or not rake the FW trap.

You mean the Tour pros rake their own bunkers? That's crazy. That would be like an NHL player driving the Zamboni to re-surface the ice between periods.

seriously the USGA and R&A need to have a HUGE summit/symposium on the rules of golf, IMHO they're archaic and cumbersome

I'm not saying the rules are wrong, but there needs to be some common sense here

if I hit it 50 yards offline but onto the cart path I can take relief but if I stripe one down the middle and it lands in a divot I'm screwed?

Cink raked the bunker himself?

Well my biggest issue to this rule is this, if he was in any other bunker during the round then he would not be testing the sand since he has hit out of a bunker already. My understanding he didnt even rake the bunker it was his caddy. I believe a rake should be a repair tool that should not be considered a way to test the sand. With as many people working the course someone else could rake the bunkers.

There are some really dumb rules out there. I agree there are some rules that need to be changed.

Scotty B

Nope...his caddy did....and that is a violation according to the broadcast today.

Bit of a bummer for us mere mortals if you knock one into a greenside bunker and don't know about it until you get up to the green.

I'm sure you would be popular with other members either leaving the bunkers unraked, or walking all the way back to rake them.

Having said that maybe thats why people don't rake them!

As I see it, you don't have to actually hit into a bunker from that lie. But if you hit into a bunker at some point further in the round that suffices for a DQ, provided you indeed raked that first bunker you weren't actually in.

a bit ott
if theyre going at it like that then surely u cant go in more than 1 bunker a round?
very sad

"He raked the bunker while his ball laid in another bunker."

NOW I do see the problem, and put that way, the rule does make sense. But if his caddy raked the bunker, how does that help the player? Does the rule book assume his caddy is eloquent enough to describe the condition of the sand as felt by a rake well enough to make any sort of difference to Cink's play of the ball with a golf club. That seems a stretch to me. If he can do that, that caddy should be a poet laureate somewhere. (I know the rules penalize the player in several circumstances for the conduct of other people - playing partners or caddies - but this instance seems a bit ridiculous.)

the dq came about because he failed to give himself 2 strokes for the action prior to signing the scorecard...

Doesnt the caddy rake the bunker??If the caddy did rake the bunker,how is cink in violation?

No matter how you describe it, its a stupid rule. If I am playing with my sunday foursome and I hit the ball from a fairway bunker to a greenside bunker I am supposed to not rake the bunker until I am out of the greenside bunker? That makes complete sense . I would completely understand it if he raked the bunker his ball was in but that was not the case. The other thing that I think is stupid even if the rule is stupid is the fact that the caddy can't rake the bunker. I would agree with an earlier post. Somebody needs to sit down and go over every single rule and apply common sense to them. I think golf is the greatest game out there but it has some really stupid rules!!!

This New Orleans ruling is bogus, but Cink did cheat at Harbour Town a few years back.
Ever since then I don't root for the guy.

Kudos to Cink for admitting it and taking the DQ. This is another reason I love golf. Rather than hold up his arms in disbelief at being called for a foul, he actually questioned his own (or his caddy's) actions.

Hopefully they'll amend this rule.

now here's the real kicker

if Cink had chunked the shot and it landed on the lip and slowly started to roll back into the same bunker where it would wind up right at his feet, before the ball landed back in the hazard he could have raked the bunker

WTF???!!! I have NEVER heard of that rule! It is what it is, but man! What a way to find out!

Nope, cuz he wasnt in the bunker! He was hitting his shot that laid beside the bunker but had to stand in it, therefore it'd be the same situation regardless.

What im wondering, is just flat out, i hit my ball beside the bunker, and not in it, but i stand in it for my shot. So i cannot rake it otherwise it is deemed as "testing the hazard"? Or do i have to hit it into another bunker in that hole? Or in that round? Or at all?

If you are speaking of what Stewart Cink did on the 18th hole at Harbour Town wasn't that deemed well within the rules. If I recall, he removed some loose pebbles in a waste bunker which was not deemed a hazard.

I agree with not "testing the condition" of the bunker you're in...but getting penalized because you hit in to another bunker 200 yards away, c'mon man! With all the rain they had it was probably different conditions anyways.

BTW: I did this in a tournament a month ago (that I won!). I was in a greenside bunker that was completely saturated with rain, skulled it across the green in to the other bunker. I raked my bunker before I went across to hit my next shot, where I got up and down for a bogey. I guess I should call the WSGA and forfeit my title

Ridiculous. This is the 2nd or 3rd worst rule in golf, behind not being able to repair a spike mark and being forced to hit out of a divot in the middle of the fairway.

Some rules just have to be broken!

Did you see what happened to Stewart Cink at the Zurich Classic this weekend? He was disqualified because his caddie raked a bunker after he stood it in.

Find out more and then let me know what you think. What other bizarre rules are out there that we know nothing about?

Time for golf to step into the 21st century!

Golfgal

I think the rule is ok, the interpretation was not. Let's say I hit it in a bunker on the first hole. I rake the trap, was that testing the condition of similar hazards found on the same hole, the next hole or the 18th hole? The rule is there to prevent people from testing the condition of a similar hazard, not to keep people from raking traps. Plenty of people hit shots from bunker to bunker & this rule is never enforced in this manner.

Man that's a bit rough - add to the fact that it wan't even the player who raked the bunker and its totally ridiculous. How can a player be testing conditions when his caddy raked the bunker? I love golf rules sometimes. Like the one where you can't fix spike marks in a green until after you've finished out, etc.

Edit: What was he expected to do? Was Cink supposed to carry his bag to the next bunker, play his shot, then his caddy could rake the fairway bunker and then come and do the greenside trap? Seems like a waste of time when they are trying to speed up rounds...

what a dumb rule.

holy smoke, that means i should have won dozens and dozens of holes in matchplay! darn it!

It's harsh, but if I understand correctly he stood in the fairway bunker to take his shot but his ball was not in it?

A Tour Pro caddy should know to leave it unraked. If I were caddying for a Pro I'd be reading the rules every night.

it doesnt make any sense. the bunkers are presumably a distance away from one another. that can't possibly be testing. because if it is, then you know how bunkers of one hole can be quite close to another's? or how about a player hitting off course and landing in a bunker on another hole?

if i hit a shot into the bunker on hole 1 and then somehow i manage to hit my tee shot from hole 4 into the bunker of hole 1, and i had already raked it, i would have certainly tested the conditions, wouldn't i? and in cink's case, we aren't even talking about the same bunker.

this rule is silliness exemplified. and anyone (in the rules committee) who thinks that it is a sound rule ought to seriously get a lesson in logic or be replaced by not-old in the mind persons.

Ya, and the rules are gonna stay that way....unless....I just had a great idea!!! All the players on tour that have problems with slow play should get together and really start enforcing all of these rules that would totally slow play down. For example like Stewart Cink walking a few hundred yds up the fairway to find his ball in a another bunker. Then 5 min or so asking his caddie if he had repaired the 1st bunker, then 10 more talking with an official. The next thing you know with all the walking and negotiating, and score fixing it's been 30 min until he plays his next shot. I'm not sure if this would work but I bet if the players got really anal about the rules and were slowing down play to horrible paces then they might finally do something about it. This way we could get rid of some really horrible rules and maybe make a couple new ones regarding pace of play all at once.


Joshua

Am I right in saying that the Caddie is part of the players equipment?
Hence why he shouldnt have raked it.

Did you know that, say a bunker lies between your ball and the green and there is not much of a lip on the bunker and you decide that as there is not much green to work with you are going to putt through the bunker instead of playing over it. You are allowed, as your ball is not in the hazard to walk into the bunker as a way of testing the surface to get an idea of whether the sand is soft or firm.

Work that one out!

Let's expound on Cdn Golfer's comment a bit. Okay, so Cink's approach shot was hit from the rough but he had to stand in the bunker to hit it.....we all agree with this, right? Let's say he didn't hit that next shot into the bunker which ultimately ended up as his penalty but, instead, hit it on the green and finished the hole. BUT, on the next hole, he hits it in a bunker. Since he stood in the bunker to take his stance and hit the shot on the hole before, and his caddie raked the bunker, just as he it happened, because he's now in a hazard (bunker on the next hole) is it deemed a 2 stroke penalty as well? He still "tested" the sand on the hole before by raking the bunker. What's different and why? Does it matter that the hole is a different one? It doesn't state that in the rules. What makes it any less of a violation if it happens on the next hole or any hole that round? Certainly, he can't leave a bunker unraked just because he stood in it until the round is over just in case he hits it into another one later in his round. What if he had hit it into a bunker earlier in his round already......hit the shot out of the bunker then raked it as normal? That's fine as it's how it should be done, right? However, then, what happened, happened to him......would it still be a penalty? Would he still be deemed to have tested the surface even tough he's already played from the sand earlier?

I suspect the answer to his situation could be in the "hole being played" but the rules don't state that in this case. The other scenarios I pointed out also make it further unclear. I'm not sure I get it?

have u ever seen a player rake a bunker? Caddies always do it...

I've seen a player rake a bunker occasionally...

What normally happens if a player goes in a bunker, and after he's played the shot it's still his turn to play next, another caddy in the group will go and rake the bunker so caddy can do the yardages/club selection etc, etc...

Around green's alot of caddies will clean another player's ball after he's been in a bunker if his own caddy is still raking the bunker.

What happens at The Open is there is a bunker raker in each group (usually a green staff member from a nearby course) so the caddies don't need to do the bunkers. This probably isn't possible at a normal tour event every week, due to staffing issues, you couldn't ask a voulanteer to rake bunkers at a pro event, to many implications if it's not done perfectly everytime.

Absolutely ridiculous rule.
Anyone know what would happen if the shot out of the bunker doesn't hit another bunker but the next one does? Does the rule apply or does it apply if it is only on the next shot? If any subsequent shot on a particular hole, the player could not have known he might eventually hit into another on the same hole and has to rake the first bunker-they are fined if they don't. OTOH, if the player first safely hits out of a bunker and goes into a bunker on a subsequent hasn't he "tested" the sand? And how is this any different than playing from a bunker on any other hole? Why is is that bunkers are considered similar only on the same hole and only if played on subsequent shots?
I really don't understand the intent of the rule. These guys can spend time in the practice bunker prior to the round get a feel for the sand and that's OK? And doesn't the tour come in and set up courses before the tourney and might dictate certain sand and certain amounts of sand so that the bunkers are relatively consistent?

More than anything, I think etiquette and the rules are conflicting in this situation. I think it is worse that the rules would expect you leave the course in that condition than raking the bunker for competitors coming behind.

As for spike marks and divots.... "PLAY THE BALL AS YOU FIND IT"... this is golf Dogma... sorry but those situations are what make this game so great... even better reason for you to fill in your divots...

D'oh, no I didn't. Guess I should have read the whole thread before responding. In any event, the questions posed are still not answered.

your interpretation of the rule is wrong. stewart cink did not hit FROM the bunker he raked. his stance was in the bunker and the ball was outside of the bunker. therefore raking it ws testing the condition of the similar hazard his ball was hit into. if his ball would have been in the bunker he would have hit his shot out of the bunker and therefore he would have known the condition anyway and nothing would have happened. he could have raked the bunker and moved on. but since his first shot wasnt actually in the bunker it was deemed testing the conditions because he hadn't actually taken a stroke from the hazard.

What seems a little odd about all this is that it seems that by raking the bunker he was deemed to be "testing" it. But he also walked around in the bunker he'd just hit out of - is that also "testing"? When are you testing or not testing? Shouldn't it make a difference here that his caddie was raking the bunker to make it playable for the next group, rather than testing the condition of the sand to gain some competitive advantage? Not to mention why would Cink need to "test" the condition of a bunker he'd just played out of?

This whole situation just seems plain dumb to me.

What's this here...according to Exception #3 to Rule 13-4, "If the player makes a stroke from a hazard and the ball comes to rest in another hazard, Rule 13-4a does not apply to any subsequent actions taken in the hazard from which the stroke was made."

Doesn't that get Cink off the hook?

Here's the link to rules:

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/books/rules/rule13.html

Golf has some asinine rules. Most I thought came from the age of the sport.... This ruling is about as intelligent as penalizing players for signing off on incorrect scorecards kept by their playing partners.... in an age of score keepers following every group, and TV... it's just asinine.

A very bizaare rule to say the least. It seems like a waste of time and a great way to slow down your pace of play to me, that's about it. I wouldn't be suprised to see it revised next year.

No it does not get him off the hook, because the stroke was not made from the hazard since the ball was outside the hazard...

USGA covering their a$$?

http://www.usga.org/playing/rules/rules.html

right on the first page of the rules section.... LMAO!!!!!

If you click on the link and read fully, one could argue that Cink should not have been penalized....