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gjones77
I was thinking the other day, we always talk about how great it would be to see golfers from different generations play against each other, and I realized that it's something we can do.

With technology and computers nowadays we should be able to simulate a golf tournament with the top 100 golfers of modern (1920+) times, I know it sounds rather difficult, but hear me out here.

It's just a matter of finding a golf course other than Augusta that they've all played on, somewhere that would be in the US Open rotation, Merion would be a great choice or Oakmont, the reason for this is that we're able to see how each golfer actually played those courses in each round each time, by doing this we're able to develop averages for each golfer on that particular course.

The next step would be to adjust golfers from different generation to modern equipment standards by figuring out how far they would hit each club using modern equipment as opposed to persimmons, again this is just a matter of performing the mathematical equations to figure this out.

The next step would be to gather the numbers on these golfers tendencies with various shots using known text and video to show how they play in a particular circumstance (side hill lie, how often they go for it in two, etc...) flaws and all and make sure that this information is only gathered from when they played in their prime.

So, once all the data is gathered, and the course chosen, simulate a full tournament, each player with the variables of who's leading, who they're playing with, weather conditions etc, over the course of 4 rounds with a cut of the top 50 and ties after Friday.

Run this simulation about 10,000 times per golfer per round and take the averages for each golfer as how they would perform and let the numbers speak for themselves.

After all this is gathered, The Golf Channel could then use modern computer animation (which looks terribly life like) to actually show the final 2 rounds of the tournament on TV.

We have pictures and video of most of the greats swings, that can be used as the basis for the 3D animators to create each player as they looked in their prime.

Tell me if wouldn't do fun seeing Tiger and Hogan going down the stretch, or Nicklaus and Byron Nelson head to head.

This is something that could be accomplished and I feel would be a huge TV draw for all golf fans.

So, let me know what you think.
spookyfish
Somebody has been watching Rocky Balboa
gjones77
QUOTE(spookyfish @ Mar 13 2008, 11:04 AM) *
Somebody has been watching Rocky Balboa


Nah, watched that over a year ago, just was thinking about it and would love to see it.

It would probably help allot with the constant debate.
larrybud
QUOTE(gjones77 @ Mar 13 2008, 10:54 AM) *
Tell me if wouldn't do fun seeing Tiger and Hogan going down the stretch, or Nicklaus and Byron Nelson head to head.

This is something that could be accomplished and I feel would be a huge TV draw for all golf fans.

Golf ain't chess. To much randomness to break it down into mere stats. I mean, Tiger can make an Eagle or Double on the same par 5 two days apart (or worse!). So I don't see how it can be done.
gjones77
QUOTE(larrybud @ Mar 13 2008, 02:15 PM) *
QUOTE(gjones77 @ Mar 13 2008, 10:54 AM) *
Tell me if wouldn't do fun seeing Tiger and Hogan going down the stretch, or Nicklaus and Byron Nelson head to head.

This is something that could be accomplished and I feel would be a huge TV draw for all golf fans.

Golf ain't chess. To much randomness to break it down into mere stats. I mean, Tiger can make an Eagle or Double on the same par 5 two days apart (or worse!). So I don't see how it can be done.


That's why you look at averages and you look at situational golf.

You can look at a golf hole and say Tiger will birdie that hole 67% of the time, now if a computer takes that into a account based on situation, it can randomly generate what happens.

There are too many variables, but you can still simulate such a tournament and get pretty close to accurate results.

I'm not saying it's perfect, but it would be pretty close based on available information and it would be entertaining to watch.
beachgrovejunior
Interesting theory, but golf isn't science or math class, its golf
Xiphos
QUOTE(beachgrovejunior @ Mar 13 2008, 04:33 PM) *
Interesting theory, but golf isn't science or math class, its golf


First of all it was an idea not a theory.

Secondly it is math and science. Do add and subtract your scores? What makes the ball carry so far?

I think it is a great idea. They did this with Ali and Rocky Marciano, and it was pretty cool. Something like this would not be 100% accurate, but you could do it. The situations that people are speaking of have all ready happened. There would be a ton of variables, but it would be doable and I bet it would be somewhat accurate.
gjones77
QUOTE(Xiphos @ Mar 13 2008, 06:37 PM) *
QUOTE(beachgrovejunior @ Mar 13 2008, 04:33 PM) *
Interesting theory, but golf isn't science or math class, its golf


First of all it was an idea not a theory.

Secondly it is math and science. Do add and subtract your scores? What makes the ball carry so far?

I think it is a great idea. They did this with Ali and Rocky Marciano, and it was pretty cool. Something like this would not be 100% accurate, but you could do it. The situations that people are speaking of have all ready happened. There would be a ton of variables, but it would be doable and I bet it would be somewhat accurate.


Thanks, at least some one has an open mind friends.gif kewlpics.gif

He's right, everything in golf is math, it's percentages, it's launch angles and spin, it's variables based on numbers and conditions.

These things can be programmed into a system that could make a pretty accurate simulation, and it would be allot of fun to watch.
beachgrovejunior
No it isn't you never hit the exact same shot twice, i guarantee you that, never the same launch angles/spin rates exactly, not the same conditions not the same lies, not the same bounces, if you think golf is just about numbers then i worry.

Sorry for the wrong choice of word Xiphos, but i guess some people have enough time on their hands to nitpick, guess i should have pulled out my dictionary first. And btw i never said you couldn't do it, but look at how many shots Tiger has hit that you say HOW THE HELL DID HE DO THAT, would mess it up.

Seve would probably make the computer used for the simulation crash

Good IDEA(that better?) but like i said, i just dont think it would be that accurate, too many different things to take into account, variables that cant be defined by numbers
hbear
But the law of averages say that the more times you run the simulation the more accurate it becomes....

E.g. Run the thing a million times for each player....you'll get a pretty good picture of what will happen.
(the shear number of simulations makes the odd "out of the norm" statistically worthless)

I think it would be great to do....would create A LOT of talk that for sure!
Baycal92510
besides, even the best course have undergone some changes. Wether it's fairway's, bunkers, greens, or vegitation. It's not really possible
gjones77
QUOTE(Baycal92510 @ Mar 14 2008, 04:01 AM) *
besides, even the best course have undergone some changes. Wether it's fairway's, bunkers, greens, or vegitation. It's not really possible


Course changes are easy to account for, most of them have been lengthened and the rough has been grown, these are things that can be accounted for.

Boba
QUOTE(gjones77 @ Mar 14 2008, 07:15 AM) *
QUOTE(Baycal92510 @ Mar 14 2008, 04:01 AM) *
besides, even the best course have undergone some changes. Wether it's fairway's, bunkers, greens, or vegitation. It's not really possible


Course changes are easy to account for, most of them have been lengthened and the rough has been grown, these are things that can be accounted for.



So who won the 2008 masters?
twgolf
And after we find out who the best golfer of all time is....

Click to view attachment
mjm1
I think its a cool idea.

The one thing you can't simulate though is the mental aspect of the game...which is a huge part of what separated the greats from the rest of the field. Seeing Tiger vs Jack in the final group should be enough to give most golf fans chills - seriously, these two guys completely knew they were the best and expected to win every time out - if they really had to face each other would self-doubt set in for one of them? Who knows...

Purely on stats I think you'd have to give it to Tiger...most complete in all areas with the exception of driving the golf ball...which he has shown to be basically irrelevant to him winning.
gjones77
QUOTE(mjm1 @ Mar 14 2008, 08:28 AM) *
I think its a cool idea.

The one thing you can't simulate though is the mental aspect of the game...which is a huge part of what separated the greats from the rest of the field. Seeing Tiger vs Jack in the final group should be enough to give most golf fans chills - seriously, these two guys completely knew they were the best and expected to win every time out - if they really had to face each other would self-doubt set in for one of them? Who knows...

Purely on stats I think you'd have to give it to Tiger...most complete in all areas with the exception of driving the golf ball...which he has shown to be basically irrelevant to him winning.


You can't completely simulate the mental aspect, but you could factor allot of that in.

Just by watching a golfer play you can tell how they react to adverse circumstances.

If he hits a bad shot how does that effect their averages after?

It's just a matter of looking at how a golfer reacts to a bad shot, what are their recovery averages, what has happened in past events where the golfer is put under pressure, how have they reacted.

These are things that could be accounted for, a perfect example is Walter Hagen, he walked out on the course figuring he was going to hit 3 or 4 bad shots that round, so when he did it didn't effect him, compare that to Phil or Sergio, when they hits bads shots it can some times drag their whole round down.

There is data available that shows how a player reacts to adversity and that can be factored in.
victor2000
Regardless of whether it is a theory, an idea, or whatever..............I would be interested to see the results. It would be fun to see Hogan and Tiger coming down the stretch, battling it out with Nicklaus, Nelson, and Jones hot on their heels.

Great idea!!!
meroj
I think it would be a great idea.

Years ago, NFL films used footage from past games to put together a tournament of all time teams. They had to have just gone based on team strengths and weaknesses. While these assesments of the teams can be subjective, it is just in fun. I for one found it fun to watch this on a dreary afternoon when there was nothing else on.

It would not settle any debate as to who is the best of all time, but it would be fun to watch and it would also create some good debate.

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