I forgot to mention about Cobra's head size but you and stealthontour are correct, they are smaller than AP2 and MP57's. I thought AP2 are slightly smaller with less offset than MP57's.

When I hit several clubs on Titleist Sure-Fit cart along with many other OEM demo's. I found that I was hitting ZB the best of them all. But that was just the 6 iron and I'm going to wait until the demo days hit my course next week before determining what I might like the best. 10 different OEM's will be there over 2 day's span.

But when my swing is on, Cobra Pro CB might be the best of the shitz. Unfortunately, when my swing is off(often), it's very demanding to use.

br61,

That demo day sounds like a blast! I can't wait to hear about it!!!

Kevin

Kevin,
I did not get a chance to hit the AP2's with anything other than the PX. I had made my original decision to by the AP2's because they felt pretty good and were noticeably longer than the 57's with DG of which I attributed mostly to the shaft diff. I would have liked to have tried them with the DG, but this was all I had. In the end, the feel of the 60's matched with the consistency, accuracy and ball flight of the X100's won out! I'll no doubt try the AP out later with different shafts, but I think the minimalist in me yurns for the pure simplicity of an MP-60 style head.

Thanks Jrk, I was just curious. Enjoy the 60s!

Kevin

I read alot about look, feel, & forgiveness between both clubs in this thread. What about ball flight? I've noticed and have been told by my pro that the MP-57 are designed to produce a higher ball flight. I'm living with a high ball flight with my 57's but I've always wondered about whether the AP2's produced a lower tragectory.

I would think the tungsten insert along with the PX shaft would produce a high but flatter ball flight. I think that type of trajectory equates to the distance gain people are seeing with the AP2.

ronster,

I think you are correct. I've played my AP2 irons with PX 5.5 shafts for 36 holes now and have some data to compare against my MX-25 irons with DGSL stiff shafts. I don't have the distance change figured out yet but I would guess it is about half a club longer.

The course I play on most often has a strong southerly prevailing wind that comes on late morning to early afternoon. With my MX-25 irons, shots hit into the wind would have a tendency to balloon and fall shorter than you might other wise suspect. With the AP2 irons, I get higher initial ball flight but no ballooning so I get a lot more distance. This is a welcome change! This tells me that the PX shafts are lower spin than the DG. The good news is that my AP2 iron shots seem to be landing and stopping just as quickly as they did with the MX-25 irons.

The AP2 irons are great. I am very happy that I went with them instead of the MP-57 irons. I spent a decent amount of time hitting both and I like the feel, control, forgiveness, and ball flight of the AP2 irons better. My only real complaint is the chrome finish on the AP2 irons. I wish there were satin finish option.

S-

I as well have found that my ap2's are about a club longer than my mp57's were. I've had my ap2's for a couple of months now and couldn't be happier about the change. My ap2's are longer and more forgiving than the mp57's were.

The AP 2´s are .25" longer as the MP-57 in standart length, otherwise is no difference in length.

Huh? We aren't talking about the physical length of the actual club here. We are talking about how far each club hits the ball....

S-

I wasn't talking about the physical length. I was referring to the one club distance between the ap2's and mp 57's.

Not sure if it was mentioned earlier on in the thread but GM published the moi figures for both clubs and the moi is marginally higher on the mp-57...

I don't know how the moi is higher on the mp 57's. Having owned both clubs the ap2's are marginally higher in terms of forgivness. I'm not trying to put down the mp 57's but honestly the ap2's are more forgiving and for me they are a club longer than the mp 57's.

I think either you or Golf Magazine have that backwards. Its probably Golf magazine, they aren't to well known for publishing technical specs. They are more interested in pros, cons and company lines.

Ralph Maltby tested both AP2s and MP57s and found AP2s had slightly higher MOI. He is pretty exacting when it comes to that kind of stuff.

Personally I don't take the Maltby playability factor into to much consideration. According to the 07 maltby the 695's are more forgiving than the 755's. I've hit both and 99% of the people who have hit both would disagree. Also if you compare the 07 mp60's to the 08 mp57's the 60's are more forgiving. Honestly the mp57's are nothing more than a finally forged cavity back. I agree than do feel better on flush hits than the ap2's. But the ap2's are a cavity back with new technology. They have a dual chamber with tungsten weight to push weight to the perimeter. Like I said I've had both irons and you can't disagree with new technology. Also you can't argue with their tour play. I don't know of any pros playing the mp57's.

I agree with some of what you say, namely the malby ratings. I don't agree with the 60s being better than the 57s in regards to forgiveness, but we all swing different and will have different results with different irons. Using pro usage to make an argument of "better" isn't the best way to make your point either. This logic could actually go against the AP2 irons as the number one player is using plain old fashion blades with no technology, another pro still is using Ping Eye 2s no longer in production (both players could play newer sets with new tech.). Titleist players have more reason to play the latest Titleist offering, some haven't chosen to do so though. We will all have different results, all have our reasons to choose one over another. I will say AP technology is probably better for people like me though, whether a pro uses them or not has no bearing on my game.

I did recently pick up the AP2 and AP1 set, compared them directly to the MP57. To my eye, it appears the Mizzies are right in between these two as far as size is concerned. Also, the AP2s seem to have a sharper leading edge. I may purchase an AP2 set, my only concern is reading some of the remarks they are high spin with the weight so low. I like lighter Nippon shafts and I don't know if it would be a good idea with these heads as they seem to add spin and launch anyway.

The only way is to get on a LM. For me the ap2's are a club longer than any of my irons i've owned in the past. In the past five years I've owned the cobra 3100's, ping i5's, titleist 735's, titleist 755's, mp 57's, and now the ap2's. For me the ap2's get the ball up faster but then planes out with less spin. It's still enough spin to stop a ball on a dime.

Can anyone comment on the durability of AP2's? I have the MP57 and they seem to show wear / bag chatter pretty easily. My old Pings never had this issue. Both MP57 and AP2 are carbon steel but how durable is the tungsten nickel?

There has been a lot of talk about the durability of the AP1's/2's. I have owned a set of MP-57's and my buddy has AP2's and I would say the chat about the Titleist's not holding up well is exaggerated.

The MP-57's got quite a few small dinks and knocks but the wear issues with the AP2's, in my opinion, seems to be more cosmetic i.e. the polished finish does go quickly but they do not seem to be prone to quite as much bag chatter.

For what it's worth, regarding playability I have found the AP2's to be significantly more forgiving and though perhaps a touch less workable, I'd take them over the MP-57's any day. The MP-57's look and feel great (out of the middle) but unless you're a very consistent striker of the ball, the AP2's are a much better option. Just my thoughts anyway.

I can't compare the durability on the MP-57. However, I used to play the Titleist 735.cm Chrome 1025 Carbon.. Damn, those things has so many dinks and bag chatter marks. I will take that every time for a soft feel. Now on to the AP2's.

Now I walk or push cart and I have had my AP2 for about 3 months. As far as bag chatter. There definately not as bad as the 735's. So I'm real happy about that. To be honest I don't see hardly any bag chatter dings. As Pann said above the Polished finish doesn't look as good as when I bought them, however, still not to bad.

As far as the steel goes, I personally believe they hold up better then most 1025 Steel clubs. Any 1020 to 1025 steel are going to get marks. Just the way it goes.

what irons did you use before spacedust?
i had ta2s and the mp57s are garbage compared to them
they go abolsultely no where,its like the ball dies off of the face
i got lucky and traded my 57s for ap2s NIB and expecting them next week




i found the mizunos farely forgiving but even on absolutely PURED shots, the ball seemed to die
i went from hitting a 9 iron 150 to a 7 iron 150, 210 yard 6 iron to a 3 iron :|
thats not right, maybe the shaft head combo or weaker lofts?
curious to see the ap2s

actually, eye2s are still in production
my dad ordered a brand new set 2 weeks ago directly from ping
they casted him a set and had them delivered in 8 days
i currently have ping eye2s and mp57s and the pings blow the 57s out of the water by a long shot
the 57s are a bit easy to work the ball but the eye2s are like lasers
the mizunos have no distance to them at all, i dont know about you guys but i dont like having to hit a 7 ot 6 iron in from 150 yards.
the pings are an easy 2 clubs longer for me
im expecting a set of ap2s next week
a buddy of mine has them and said they are sweet so im curious to see, shafted with PX 5.5s
i never did like PX shaft but i geuss we will see how it goes

I have owned both sets and definitely prefer the AP2's. I agree with an earlier post in that the AP's are a touch longer, more forgiving but less workable than their counterpart MP-57's. I will also add that the Project X 5.5's seem to lower my ball flight. As a long time DG S300 high ball hitter, I'm really warming up to the 5.5's.

It is probably time to consider comparing the 2009 Mizuno MP-52 to the AP2.

+1.

I was just thinking the same thing.

I just wonder if it would change anything? The MP-57's are wonderful irons, and I'm sure the MP-52's will be even better for some people. Some like the Mizuno feel, some like the Mizuno name, ditto for Titleist. All wonderful clubs, it just comes down to personal preference. People need to try them all for themselves, pick a set, and be sure to get properly fitted! All that's left after that is to go make birdies!!!

Kevin

I know what you mean, Kevin, as it generally seems that someone likes either Mizuno or Titleist irons.

For me though, it might change something as I'm currently playing Mizunos and the AP2s very nearly knocked them out of the bag this year. But I wasn't in the market for irons this season.

I know what you mean, when I saw pics of the 52's they made ME drool!

Kevin

PS: But I'm not switching...


EDIT: Oops, it was the 62's I saw pictures of. Very nice!

Hi,

I am a big mizuno fan for many years. I believe they hands down make the finest irons in golf. That being said...I have played the MP57's with 5.5 PX shafts all year long. I like the 57's but i wouldn't say I'm crazy about them. My Sunday golf teamate just put the AP2's 5.5 PX shafts in his bag last Sunday. Well I hit several shots all day with those clubs. I hit several shots fron the exact yardage with both clubs, say an 8 iron. What I experienced was, for me, The AP2's flew higher and went about 1/2 club longer. The thing that struck me the most about the AP'2 was how harsh they felt at impact compared to the Mizzy's. Definately harder feeling, but not bad. I couldn't take my eyes of the AP'2 all day, I think they look really hot in the bag. I think they are both very nice clubs, even though I have never been a fan of multi material heads and two piece this and that and inserts here and there in irons. Also the Ap'2 are $1000. I'm looking for new irons. I would consider the Titleists, but I'm waiting for the new Mizzy's to come out before I make my decision. Maybe MP52's. We all need a 12 step program. LOL

When you try the MP 52 you will see it's no comparison. The 52 has a smaller better looking head with more effective hitting area, is a one piece Forged iron not 3 pieces welded together, and the 52's feel much better IMO.

Ooooh. You've hit them? I cannot wait to hit those irons and try them out. Its either that or the MP62's.

And I generally agree with the consensus on here saying the AP2's are a bit more forgiving than the MP57's. The AP2's have a springy feel off the clubhead - not bad, but I'm used to the soft feel of the Mizunos.
And I love my mizzies, I've committed to them for a whole season (before I even think of switching them out), and being in California weather --- that's one long season!

I've hit both the the MP-57 and AP2 irons extensively. For many months my plan was to replace my MX-25 irons with MP-57 irons. I was a Mizuno guy after all. I was all set to order the MP-57 irons with PX 5.5 shafts when someone suggested I hit the AP2 irons before I committed. I am very glad I did!

The AP2 irons offered all the playability of the MP-57 irons with more forgiveness and, for me, better ball flight and distance. The AP2 irons provided the same amount of feedback on off center hits but with less harshness. Both irons are forged out of soft 1025 mild carbon steel and both feel buttery soft on perfect strikes.

I much prefer the AP2 irons to the MP-57 irons and I don't see how the MP-52 irons are going to be significantly different than the MP-60 or MP-57. The Mizuno technology has not changed. Titleist used multiple materials to make a more advance iron. They are more expensive too but that makes sense.

I am sure the MP-52 irons, like the MP-60 and MP-57 irons before them, will be great. But there is nothing substantially new that would cause there to be a new level of performance.

S-

so heres my virdict
i had 57s for 3 weeks, traded them for a brand new in the box set of ap2s with px5.5
57s had s300s

lets look before the 57s, i was hitting ta2s, 150 pw, 210 5 iron
these also had s300s
now my 57s, my 150 yard club was a 7iron, and a 3 iron would be lucky to get past the 200 yard marker
i noticed with the 57s they felt great when hit good but the ball seemed to die off the clubface and they had extremely high ballflight
very easy to work but as you got down to the lower irons, the heads began to look more like shovels and i didnt like the bounce on the pw and 9 iron
they also had a very different sound to them
the low irons were also 2* weaker than my ap2s
these also either had a nice littler draw or a block left about 10 feet

the ap2s as i mentioned before have px5.5s
never been a fan of px's but what can you do
i hit these also very high, but not like the mizunos, more like my old clevelands
they are 1/4 inch longer than the mizuno out of the factory also
just as easy to work the ball as the 57s, similar feel as well but the ap2s feel more solid to me
90% of shots have a small draw on them
they bite like crazy and look nicer at address in the low irons
these are much longer than the mizunos as well
9iron is 150 and 4 iron is 210

all in all, i would never buy mizuno products ever again, after dealing with the poor craftsmanship of their blue rage driver and going threw 3 in 2 weeks and they limited distance of the 57s
if you dont mind hitting more club then id say go with the 57s
in my opinion the ap2s are without a doubt a much better iron than the 57s

Scott, I know you are fairly knowledgeable but you may want to wait to see and hit the 52 before you make a comment like the last one. The new dual muscle tech gives the 52 a lot more feel than the rubber piece in the AP2. The dual pocket cavity alows Mizuno to move 14 grams of weight around the head and give the 52 a more effective hitting area than the AP2. The 52 is forged from 1025 Carbon and as far as I know the AP2 is "forged" stainless steel.

AP2 are not just Stainless steel. The steel in them are Forged 1025 carbon. If you don't believe me check the Titleist specifications.

seriousperformance,

Well, what you know about the AP2 is wrong then. Go to the Titleist web site and read about the AP2 and you will find they are a multi-material design with the main body forged out of 1025 carbon steel.

The "Dual Muscle" is nothing more than a marketing term. One "Muscle" is in the cavity and the other is the bottom of the iron. In other words, just another way of forming a cavity back. The milled pocket cavity in the longer irons lets Mizuno move the cg lower and deeper. The MP-52 fits between the MP-57 and the MX line.

I don't know how you can say that the MP-52 has a more effective hitting area or has a lot more feel. Titleist is able move more weight around using a dual cavity design with a lower box structure (a different way to do what the milled pocket cavity does). The box structure is formed with a tungsten nickel back/sole piece. There is a central cross member which provides rigidity just like the "Muscle" in the cavity of the MP-52. The elastomer insert along with the aluminum cavity plate and tungsten nickel back/sole piece dampen vibration and tune the sound of the iron.

Mizuno, using a one piece forging, is limited in what they can do to move weight around and tune the feel and sound of the iron. You can only do so much using the same playbook. That's why Titleist decided to think out of the box and come out with a whole new design using multiple materials in a multi-piece head.

Look, the MP-52 is an MP-style (players) head with some of the forgiveness features found in the MX line. But lets not get carried away with what the MP-52 is. Again, I don't see how the MP-52 irons are going to be significantly different than the MP-60 or MP-57. The Mizuno technology has not changed. Titleist used multiple materials to make a more advance iron. There is nothing substantially new that would cause there to be a new level of performance.

S-