Interesting as I am currently looking at irons with the 695's being on my shortlist.

I just took the plunge and ordered 3-pw ap2

if you guys want to order a custom set give discount dans a call

i needed them 2 deg flat and they are expected to ship mid April. just in time for the snow to melt!

I have been hitting both irons extensively over the last week and personally favor the 57's. I currently play 690.cb's but also have my trusty x14 PS that I use when the swing is a bit rusty (and FYI I play off a 3 for what it is worth).

I was really expecting a lot from the AP2's (being a long time Titleist iron player but the AP2's I thought were more similar to my x14 ps in terms of looks, feel, and performance than the 690.cb, (which is not a bad thing). The AP2's were certainly more forgiving on mishits than the 57's or 690's but they also did not give me a lot of feedback in terms of feel. I play my 690's bc they will tell me exactly where I hit the ball on the clubface (my x14 do not and neither did the AP2). I think a forged players cb should give good feedback, which is why I do not play the x14's during the season when my swing is halfway decent.

Don't get me wrong the Ap2 is a great iron but it did not blow me away, especially for $1000. The 57 on the other hand feels incredible, is a lot more forgiving than I was expecting, and perhaps even 5 yards longer, which really surprised me.

I see my first set of mizunos in my future.

[/quote]


this is a description from the titleist website on the ap2 irons.
clunky is when you have cavity within cavities and elastomer bar, aluminum cavity plate, tungsten nickle cavity box, steel frame.

only thing its missing is bells and whistles, or flashing L.E.D. lights. maybe a hologram. maybe a speed meter that tells you how fast you swing. or a face that changes color and tells you where the ball hit it. cause with all thats going on the back of the iron, its surprising if you can feel anything.

good luck with the ap2's. with all that technology (thingamajig), maybe it will be a better fit for your game.


i don't see these as being in the same class as a one piece forged mp irons. zb blends, yeah.
[/quote]

Thanks for the brilliant reply to my post. I see that you are playing an FT5.....sure is alot of technology in that driver. How come your not playing a block of persimmon? Bottom line is that the 695s felt better and performed better than my mp57s have so far. I bought the MP57 with limited testing with the idea that I could get a little more forgiveness without giving up too much control or feel. I have always loved Mizuno but this particular comparison goes to Titleist (for me). As a low single digit handicap I don't have to play a game improvement iron but if the technology is there then I am not afraid to give it a shot. If they perform and feel good, they can be pink and I will play them.

as golfers, there are days when we swing the club well and days we don't. and on those days, i need all the help i can get. and like you, if it helps lowers my score significantly i would play a pink one also. iron, driver, whatever. but it has to be significant. if only for a couple of strokes, i'd rather play something thats appealing.

you mentioned the mp 57 as "clunky" but yet you are considering an iron with multiple components, steel,rubber,aluminum, nickel tungsten, dual cavity. etc. etc.

its a single forged iron. i've read many reviews and descriptions of mp 57 but calling it "clunky".
makes it seem cheap.

if clunky is a decription given either to the single forged mp 57, or the multipiece, multi material busy looking ap2's.

i think the majority would describe the ap2's clunky. don't you think?

opinions, anyone?

here's a link to a topic about ap2's and the zb irons.

read what most players think about the iron's appearance.

http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=128294

Sorry to slightly disagree with you about that. I have owned at least three sets of Mizuno blades (two sets of MP-29's and one set of MP-33's. I thought as you do, until the chrome blew off two of the sets!) I have NEVER had that problem with ANY forged Titleist set of clubs!!!

The Titleist AP2's are more forgiving than absolute true blade irons, but when you start getting into the forged cavity backs, the argument starts to get muddy!

It takes a ball striker to hit blades. I was a ball striker and still am to a point. However, I am now a club pro and need the forgiveness of these new irons! (The AP2's.)

I hate to break this to you but I have a theory that soon... probably within the next 10 years... the "BLADE" head design will be gone for the most part. There will be a couple of companies who will maybe make them, but the blended sets and the cavity backs are getting better and better than ever. Forgiving and still workable. What else do you need?!

I thought the idea of golf was to shoot the lowest score?! I think you need to have the "tools" that help one get the job done, not make the game more challenging to shoot lower scores!

I also believe that even TIGER will be using either a blended set of forged cavity backs at some point in his future career! Think about it... he has dumped the 2-iron at times now in favor of a 5-wood. There has even been talk about a hybrid! If Tiger would change at some point then the true "blade" muscleback iron will be a thing of the past.

I feel that is just how the game is evolving, like it or not.

Resistance is FUTILE!!

I am not talking clunky in appearance......I mean clunky feeling. I don't care how they are constructed if they feel good. I have not hit the AP2 yet. I won't go with them if they don't feel good. First of all, I don't see any of the pieces parts at address so that does not matter. If they feel soft (and by all accounts they do) and they perform then I don't care if there are 20 pieces. I do care about looks. If the AP2s and the MP57s performed and felt exactly the same then I think the MP57 would probably be my choice. Right now I think the MP57 feels clunky to me but I am sure they will play different. I am not sure what you shoot but to me I will take my two strokes and run. Two strokes can make or break me.

I don't understand the hang up people have with what a club looks like while in the bag. Yes I want them to look nice but when addressing the ball you don't see any of the stuff people are complaining about. Same thing goes with the Cleveland CG reds or Callaway xyz...etc. The AP2s have made their way into alot of bags on tour.....there has to be something worth checking out. I will keep an open mind until I hit them.

i thought you were describing the looks as clunky... hahaha

well.. i guess it feels different to different people, and thats fine. all matter of preference.

here's what others are saying about the looks of an iron as compared to its performance.



QUOTE(StaffBag @ Dec 9 2007, 01:21 AM) WOW!!!
Haters!! Haters!!! HATERS!!!

Everywhere I look.... HATERS!!!!!!

All comments on a set of irons that you HAVEN'T EVEN HIT YET!!!


So tell me... IF you haters ever get the chance to hit these irons and you find that they are just about the best PERFORMING set of clubs that you have ever hit in your life... will you EVER consider chaging your minds?!

It is amazing to me that there are that many people here who look at the back of thier irons at the same time that they are hitting a ball with them!! How do you manage to do this?!

If they look like every other set of Titleist irons from the address position, WHAT THE HECK DOES IT MATTER?!

I would also think that if the insert was taken out of these, the performance of the club would go way down! I admit that they could have used a slightly different color than the silver with the black Titleist script, but I think they look just fine!


BTW.... PING has some UGLY-a$ stuff over the years, and everyone seems to think they are just the best stuff EVER!!!

..... WHY do people think they are the best stuff ever..... THEY ACTUALLY PERFORM!!!!

Sometimes pretty and performance are not interchangeable!







.... And for the person who photoshopped the pic of the ZB iron to make it look "better"... The iron won't perform the same if you do that! (Which is why they made the Z-pattern in the back and not formed it the way you did!)












Nope! Nobody here but HATERS!!!

I don't look at the outside design of my car, while driving it - but I still like my car to look good and be well designed. I feel the same about my irons - why don't you ?

--------------------


Best regards
Club Ho Uno
--------

A quote from a very wise golfer:
"I practice with the most unforgiving clubs, I can get my hands on.
I play with the most forgiving clubs, I can stand to look down at,
when addressing the ball....."

most important thing to me is that it has to be visually appealing. 2nd it has to perform.
i don't think i can get over the looks of the ap2's. but if someone can. more power to them.

if my mizzies wear out/lost/stolen/ i would like to try out the titleist zb's. = very good looking clubs.

spacedust, I think you made your point. You prefer appearance over performance and hate the AP2 based on looks alone. Not everybody might share that opinion, but by now everybody understands your point of view. Really.

Ain't cyberspaceland wonderful? I find it funny that many would bash a set of irons without seeing or hitting them.

I've owned just about every set of Mizunos(and Titleist) including MP57's and currently playing with new Cobra Pro CB's. I've been waiting on my stock set of AP2 that will arrive next Monday. I will not comment on how good they are until I get a chance to play with them. By looks alone and my club pro has a set(ill-fitted to me), I thought they looked great. MP57's are very nice set though, I did like the set that I had. Previously, I had thought that MP60's would be closer in comparison to AP2 but I could be proven wrong when I get the chance to play with AP2's.

One should learn how to withhold their negativeness or glowing comments of any iron's playability until they get a chance to play with mentioned set.

Now, why isn't anyone talking about Cobra Pro CB's? They're the ones that's getting the shaft by all the hype.

I'm just glad that somebody else see's this!!

I've never seen a small group of guys who have to work so hard at putting a particular club down before. Obviously you guys have an agenda, or some kind of obsession. What is it?

Kevin

I'm with Kevin on this one. The CCi's have so much offset it's ridiculous, and they're cast. The CCi forged have none of the technology of the AP2. They have no tungsten in the sole, no elastomer vibration dampener. They're not chrome, and not as forgiving. Have you guys seen the 2 side by side? Apparently not. Have you seen the S58's side by side with the AP2's. Also apparently not. The only thing that resembles the S58's is the tungsten in the sole. That's it. Ping was not the first clubmaker to do this, and Titleist will not be the last.

I'm with Kevin, also. (OK..kind of...)

However, I believe the other poster was referring to the CCI Forged. Nobody mentioned the CCI Cast.

Also, the Tiutlesit AP2 and the CCI Forged both have Tungsten weighted inserts placed low in the back of the club, not in the sole. (Please correct me if I'm worng).

The fact is, nobody is inventing incredible new technology.

I personally like Mizuno products, and feel that the one piece forging of an iron is a better design. Hopnestly, I like the looks of the Titleist ZB and ZM a lot, and am guessing that they are a great product.

That does not preclude my recognizing that the vaunted, much heralded, radical cut-muscle design of the MP-32's (great irons by the way) bears an uncanny resemblance to the Wilson Gooseneck back in the late 70's / early 80's.

Just my two cents....

Tex,

Mizuno makes GREAT irons, no doubt about it. You want to sing their praises, and you should!

Constantly bashing the AP2 series, starting threads about how ugly they are before even being seen in person, is just pissing guys like me off, it's no longer friendly debate.

This should be a friendly forum where we can all talk about how great we think what we use is, but why can't it be done without bashing others? You don't like the AP2, fine, when you see threads comparing AP2 with Mizuno, invite people to hit both and see what they think. I'm not afraid of the "Pepsi" challenge.

Obviously, from posts you have seen by guys who have actually hit the AP series, they are the hottest new players irons going right now!

Kevin

This thread is comical. I have AP2's now as well. The heads are far smaller than people think and at address they look great. The Nike irons might look similar but don't incorporate any of the technology of the AP2's. Anyone complaining of clunky feelings with AP2's, MP57's, or any other Titleist or Mizuno forged clubs aren't hitting the ball in the sweet spot or are using a Pinnacle Ball. I've played MP14's, 67's, 695's and now AP2's. They are all pure when hit right. It's great with all these guys bashing a club they've never even seen in person or hit...

The only thing I don't like about the AP2's is the dampening. Wouldn't you like to know if you misshit a shot slighlty versus having the dampening system tell you it felt pure??? I would prefer them to not have any dampening in them myself.

If you miss hit the AP2 you still know it. It just doesn't feel as harsh. The AP2 irons are very communicative.

Scott

Well I did hit them briefly on demo day. Maybe I didn't misshit them?

I hear what you are saying, but I think a lot of that comes from the PX shaft. I don't feel as much feedback with mishits when using that shaft. All irons I have hit with that shaft seem to give me the same impression.

Have you gotten that feeling with PX before in other clubs?

Kevin

Kevin,

My impression is that the feedback is there with the PX shafts,. It's just different than what one is used to from Dynamic Gold shafts. In other words, you get the same information back but you have to learn how to interpret it. Once you do that, and it doesn't seem to take long, all is well.

Scott

Yeah you might be right there, I did think part of it was the PX 5.5's when I'm use to playing X100's. Big difference obviously. I use to play PX 6.5's and did like those alot and will be getting them in my next set.

I would still rather really have more feedback then less. To me it seems a little bit like trickery to make the clubs feel better, misshits feel better. Take some input away as well. Guess I'd rather not have dampening at all.

Gotcha,

My previous post was more than a question than a statement. I really don't have a ton of experience with the PX. The set of AP2s I used in Phoenix had Nippons in them. I had PX in my hybrids and wedges. I think your explanation is right on.

Thanks,
Kevin

I'm glad I'm not the only one that thought the same thing. I saw them in hand yesterday and there is very lit'l difference in craftmanship!




I'm a fan of the new AP2's, but how could anyone really dissagree? I'm curious to hear the arguments/discussions.

I am currently playing the 735-CM's, I am always looking for better equipment to help shave another stroke or two off, with the appropriate practice. I am torn between the AP2's and the ZB's. I really like the blended concept, but was very intrigued earlier this year when Adam Scott won with the AP2's - knowing, as you stated, he's been a muscle back man for a very long time.
How do the AP2's and ZB's compare to the 735 CM's (as forgiving, not as forgiving, flight, control, etc.)? You seem very positive about the AP2's. Would you recommend the AP2's over the ZB's?

Playing the MP-57's, hated the look of the AP2's until just about 15 minute ago, when I saw them in person. They're not nearly as clunky as I expected, and I actually like them better at address than mine. Will I switch? No, I love the 57's, they're a fantastic club. That and I'm LH so it will be a while before I can even swing an AP2. But people oughta relax about the AP2's they are an awful nice looking club as well.

Stick around Kevin. I'm sure this isn't your 1st dance. In fact, I'm pretty sure I've seen you on the other end othese forums before.

IMO I don't think you should lable them a "group of guys who have to work so hard at putting a particular club down" if they just don't agree with your love affair with these irons.

I guess if they piss guys like you off by not agreeing with you completely thy should shut-up and go away, right? Or, is this still a forum of opinions?

I've hit them, I love them and I have an order in for them, but I don't like your outlook if someone "group of haters" don't agree with you.

You can. I've played them and I've hit them on the toe and heel, which is usually my miss and you can defininately tell. Not like a miss with 57's or X-forged, but you can tell. I put some tape on, just to confirm and it's definitaely noticed.

I had 3-sets of irons in my R7TP's, the DGS-300's, PX flighted and Rifled and the PX's were more board like, which amplified the misses?

Ryan, I would imagine that almost every club out there will feel great when pured. To me the MP57 (that I own) feel a little clunky on the slightest mishit. If I pured every shot then I would be playing blades. and FYI, I am not playing Pinnacles

ap2's handsdown more forgiving than the 57s.
Played with the pros set tonight and they are great!
The 57s are also great dont get me wrong.

Just got my MP-57s today (2 degrees upright, PX 5.0, 1 degree strong).
They look sweet and feel great. I've been playing the Ping Eye 2+ BeCu and I'd say the MP-57s are very close as far as forgiveness. The ball flight is lower and penetrating. I'm happy with the clubs, but I'm sure the AP2s are great sticks as well.

I can't speak for Kevin but I don't think that is what he was saying. Everyone is entitled to opinions but there are a few people here taking it a little farther than that. I personally don't like my MP57s but I can't sit here and say they suck....they are obviously a good iron from a great company. I am tired of reading the same 4-5 people say the same thing 20 different times. Great, you don't like the way the AP2s look (even though you have not seen them)....not speaking to you by the way. Someone challenged me with my description of the mp57 feel as clunky and then had to post links to show me what others thought of the looks of the AP2s....gee thanks for the help!!!

OK, Kevin, here's the post you've wanted to see (LOL)....

After playing 18 holes today, in the rain, with my MP-57's, I decided to stop at one of the big box stores to see if they had received the new Titleist irons.

Confession #1 - Did not enjoy the MP-57's with the PX 6.0 shafts. My guess is that after so many years of Dynamic Gold, I just can't make the change. Even shots that were well struck and ended up well, did not have that "Mizuno feel".

I digress, but the store did have demo's of the AP1, AP2, and the ZM, all in standard 6 iron demo's. I was not interested in the AP1, but did get to hit the AP2 (PX 5.5) and the ZM (S-300).

Confession #2 - The AP2 looked great at address, top line a little bit thicker than I like. It appeared to me, and I could be wrong, that the AP2's were less offset than the MP-57's (a feature I do not like in the 57's).

Only hitting in a net, but I was impressed - very solid and smooth. I'm not sure how much of the feel was attributable to the 5.5 shaft, but it felt much better than my MP-57's with the 6.0's.

I think anyone who has picked up a set of these, and likes the appearance, is going to be very happy with their choice.

Confession #3 - Having said that about the AP2's, I then hit the ZM, and was very impressed. Quite honestly, feels no different than the 695MB (of which I will now confess I had a set). Clickier than a Mizuno, but great solid feel nonetheless. I think a S-400 in this head for me would really work (or maybe even the S-300).

Also, upon examining the AP2 closely, I guess there is an insert or weight of some sort in the sole of the club. At least it appeared that way.

Anyway, after all is said and done in the discussion between MP-57 and AP2, it appears I may end up back with the trusty old MP-32's (or the even older and more trusted 33's).

To all of you AP2 lovers....hit 'em well!

The AP2s have indeed less offset than the MP57.

AP2 = Win saw them today

The new Titleist sticks are good, probably the best I've seen from them in some time.......hopefully the new line of drivers can follow in their footsteps!

TEX, I will say one thing, don't give up on the MP-57, simply put the shafts in you are familiar with and like (S400, X100). I have been playing a set of MP-57's since last fall, originally with X100's soft stepped 1x to D2 swingweights. They were great, best irons I ever touched. I just HAD to put in some Project X shafts to try, went 6.0 Project X straight in at D4 swingweight. Not thrilled to say the least. It completely changed the feel,AND the sound of the clubs, so much so that I slightly fell out of favor with the clubs all together. Tried an FST KB Tour 6.5 soft stepped 1x, was slightly better, but still NOT a Mizuno....if that makes sense. I think I am so in-tune with the Dynamic Gold shafts that anything else ruins a club for me.
I'm currently stuck, either re-installing the X100's I pulled, left the tip-weights in and all so they will be exactly the same as they were before....hopefully
Or going to try a soft stepped Project X 6.0....see my comments in your sticky thread in the club makers forum......
Or will give the FST KB Tour's a full run for a couple months......
The persuit never ends, even if you probably already know what's best!

What was that "I like the fact the company specializes in one thing...fine forged irons"? Are you trying to say that Mizzy does anything different than Titleist, except for the balls?

dlefty:

Thanks for the info. Interesting that you had the same experience.

Your desciption of the feel and the sound is right on the mark, and your closing comments pulls at the "club ho" in us all!

Thanks.

After doing research since Christmas, finally pulled the trigger today on a set of MP57s. Didn't really consider the AP2s as I've never really been "new" Titleist fan (played old school DCI Golds back in High School, late 90s). It came down to the MP57s, X-Forged, and MT Pros. Knocked the X-Forged out a few weeks ago, then hit about 100 balls with only the MP57s, 67s, Pro-C and Pro-M. The Macgregors just didn't do it for me, but I felt good giving the new old kid on the block a try. Just didn't feel right with all the buzz being discussed about the MT Pros. Was torn between doing a split set of 4-6 MP57 and 7-PW MP67, but my fitter helped talk me down, and I think I'll be glad he did since I've got a 4-month old roaming the house. During fitting, registered an average 7-iron swing speed of 92-93mph (low 89, high 95). So....I ended up going with 4-PW with Project X 6.5 (non-flighted) 1" long, 3 degrees up. Additionally, I'm having them weaken the lofts by 1 degree in each iron to hopefully hit them a little shorter. I went with the Golf Pride "Mizuno" Multicompound Blue/Black with an extra wrap of tape. Since my shop is considered an official Mizuno fitting location, I guess they turn them around pretty quick. Order will be called in tomorrow (Monday) and should ship out on Wednesday.

Glad the decision is made, but I'm a very indecisive person, so I'll probably second guess this until they actually arrive next week. I've REALLY got to stop reading some of the threads...but I'm just too curious.

Also, KevCarter, used your post to help make my decision on the PX. Thanks a TON.

Matt

I'm glad I'm not the only "indecisive person" here and I just pulled the trigger myself on the AP2's, 5-PW, W/stock 5.5's, but I'll also be 2nd guessing myself til I pick them up om Wed. 3/19.

Reason Being: I just went to Golfsmith last night and hit about 50-balls with the MP57's (into the net) dead solid, perfectlly centered and they had to be the softest feeling I've had since my MP32's?

I think I made the right decision based on forgiveness. That's what I really need.

Good luck with the Mizzy's.

And good luck with your AP2's. I'm sure you won't be disappointed.

I couldnt have said better myself!

If the assumption is correct that you pay more for Titleist, Talyormade, Callaway stuff because of endorsement contracts - why then is the Mizuno MP57 with PX more expensive than the Titleist AP2 with PX here in Europe (AP2: 137€, MP57: 145€)?

You also need to look at the final price - you get almost no discounts on e.g. Ping irons, while it is pretty easy to get 20% off on Titleist.

All in all, it is simply the market. The companies ask the price they think they can get.

I got my custom fit AP2 set today and am very happy after my first nine holes - not because of the 20% discount I received, but because these irons are fun to play with!

This is exactly what happened! Only ten day later - here I am with my new custom set! A new feature for me was that I received personalised "Titleist Fitting" labels for each club with my name on them - that's nice.

Congrats Larry, play great with your new sticks!

Kevin

I heard Titleist adopted Ping's pricing philosophy. I have talked to a few golfshops here in San Diego and they all said no discounting is allowed on 2008 models. I would buy them in a heartbeat for $800.00. Is everyone finding this to be true?

I neglected to ask why, but my shop said there weren't any discounts for the AP2's, but they offered me a set of the MP-57's at a discounted price. That & they felt great hitting them at the outdoor range - with a great ballflight.

Im trying hard not to look at those Titleist though - my wife will kill me. I picked up the I10's in November, and traded the MP-57's in February, and she definitely won't like it if I pick up another set irons for that high of a price.