Full Version: Mill marks
What are the purpose of mill marks? Are they nessesary?
It seems to just be a Feel or Appearance thing. Played alot that have Mill Marks, some that don't, and really can't tell a difference
-CHRIS-
-CHRIS-
I personally love mill marks on milled putters. I just tested a Byron 006 and the milling on this putter was outstanding. It was all I could do to keep the drool off the putter!
Here are a three pictures of that putter.
Here are a three pictures of that putter.
I should ask this...is it worth me sending my camerons back to the studio so they have mill marks? Or save some money and send them to BOS?
QUOTE(wiedmayer @ Dec 20 2007, 08:50 PM) 
I should ask this...is it worth me sending my camerons back to the studio so they have mill marks? Or save some money and send them to BOS?
BOS will not remove the mill chatter from your putter that is already there. If the putter is a Pro Platinum then the plating will need to be removed. If the putter is Gun Blue or Oil Can then the milling on the putter will remain as is. I sent a new Circa 1 putter to BOS (which is for sale) and BOS did a tremendous job with it.
Send the putter to BOS as they do great work.
At the prices the studio are charging, I would have to say go aftermarket. You'll keep the marks, and save ALOT.
The only case right now where I would send it to the studio would be if it was a CT, 009 or Prototype
-CHRIS-
The only case right now where I would send it to the studio would be if it was a CT, 009 or Prototype
-CHRIS-
thanks for the input
Milling the face is a way to ensure it is totally flat.
And it looks cool.
And it looks cool.
love the mill marks on my Gauge Design Japan putters:
^^^^^^^^^
That looks like a series of swirl lines done by a pointed engraving cutter. It would take a while.
Something like this: Engraving cutter
That looks like a series of swirl lines done by a pointed engraving cutter. It would take a while.
Something like this: Engraving cutter
QUOTE(wiedmayer @ Dec 20 2007, 10:39 PM)
What are the purpose of mill marks? Are they nessesary?
There is no "purpose", it is a result of a manufacturing process and no they are not necessary.
Milling surfaces are not perfectly flat. The tolerance is generally + - 0.001 of an inch or so. Essentially, the surfaces are perfectly flat, certainly flat enough for what we are using the putters for. Keep this in mind the next time you miss a putt and blame the putter for being a thousandth of an inch from true flat. 
I think milling marks are a great way to create brand recognition. Who doesn't know Byron"s Twilight milling, Bettinardi's Honeycomb or David Mills' mills marks? When you see them, you can't help but go "WOW".
BTW, we think this pattern is pretty cool, also.
Click to view attachment
Joe
Sizemore Putters
BTW, we think this pattern is pretty cool, also.
Click to view attachment
Joe
Sizemore Putters
STOP POSTING PICTURES OF THOSE SIZEMORE'S !! I won't be able to help myself!
QUOTE(Rambler @ Dec 21 2007, 09:19 AM)
STOP POSTING PICTURES OF THOSE SIZEMORE'S !! I won't be able to help myself!
Ok, so it was a shameless plug! LOL But you really have to love the diversity and beauty of all the different companies' milling patterns. Not being a machinist, I have to say "How did they do that?!"
Joe
QUOTE(502 to Right @ Dec 20 2007, 10:32 PM)
Milling the face is a way to ensure it is totally flat.
And it looks cool.
And it looks cool.
QUOTE(RobotDoctor @ Dec 21 2007, 07:12 AM)
Milling surfaces are not perfectly flat. The tolerance is generally + - 0.001 of an inch or so. Essentially, the surfaces are perfectly flat, certainly flat enough for what we are using the putters for. Keep this in mind the next time you miss a putt and blame the putter for being a thousandth of an inch from true flat.
That's what I've always learned. Milling is part of the manufacturing process, but it's purpose is to make the face (which contacts the ball) as flat as possible (within a certain manufacturing tolerance) to impart as "true" of a roll as possible. Certain manufactures use different milling methods that they believe will help achieve either the flattest surface (Bettinardi) or help put a truer roll on the face by reducing backspin.
Ironically the face milling does help to differentiate the putter from other competitors (marketing & branding) and can put less surface area on the ball to make it feel softer.
QUOTE(jhoops01 @ Dec 21 2007, 07:05 AM)
I think milling marks are a great way to create brand recognition. Who doesn't know Byron"s Twilight milling, Bettinardi's Honeycomb or David Mills' mills marks? When you see them, you can't help but go "WOW".
BTW, we think this pattern is pretty cool, also.
Click to view attachment
Joe
Sizemore Putters
BTW, we think this pattern is pretty cool, also.
Click to view attachment
Joe
Sizemore Putters
Joe, that is one tremendous milling pattern! It looks great!!!
Mill marks (to me) are like lingerie.
While the naked female form is beautiful, the right accessories can really drive it home.
While the naked female form is beautiful, the right accessories can really drive it home.
this is crazy, i was just about to post about milling on the face of a putter...
I noticed that the lower end seemore putters have no milling/ face lines but the higher end ones do. it seems a personal preference, but i think i would prefer to have a milled face
I noticed that the lower end seemore putters have no milling/ face lines but the higher end ones do. it seems a personal preference, but i think i would prefer to have a milled face
The Bettinardi Milling achieves a perfectly flat face, or at least probably as close to flat as flat can be. I think the Sizemore does something similar but, not sure. Its well documented that Faxon would request Scotty not to mill the face to keep it "flat" as possible.
QUOTE(withdrew @ Dec 21 2007, 01:15 PM)
Mill marks (to me) are like lingerie.
While the naked female form is beautiful, the right accessories can really drive it home.
While the naked female form is beautiful, the right accessories can really drive it home.
In this case, I would prefer no milling...haha to each his own I guess
QUOTE(Gxgolfer @ Dec 21 2007, 01:20 PM)
The Bettinardi Milling achieves a perfectly flat face, or at least probably as close to flat as flat can be. I think the Sizemore does something similar but, not sure. Its well documented that Faxon would request Scotty not to mill the face to keep it "flat" as possible.
That's odd as Faxon's comment would seem contrary to the reason why most manufacturers would mill the face. He does have a hell of a putting reputation though.
If I'm correct (which I could definitely be mistaken), no mill marks would mean that more surface area would technically contact the ball at impact equaling more "responsive" feel (less soft mushy feeling). Maybe that could be his definition of "flat"...more surface area even though the overall unmilled putter face could be less than perfect...
Check out this Scotty Cameron article. Click on the slide show of his putter. You can see faint mill marks but definetly not deep like some prefer.
http://www.scottycameron.com/articles/details.asp?id=18
Here is another Scotty Article and better pictures in the gallery:
http://www.scottycameron.com/articles/details.asp?id=153
http://www.scottycameron.com/articles/details.asp?id=18
Here is another Scotty Article and better pictures in the gallery:
http://www.scottycameron.com/articles/details.asp?id=153
QUOTE(wiedmayer @ Dec 21 2007, 05:39 AM)
What are the purpose of mill marks? Are they nessesary?
The normally double the cost of a club, but fortunately they are not necessary
At last a topic I feel I can make a useful contribution to ..
I am a CNC miller to trade, and I can tell you this - If I produced work with a surface finish like these "milled faces" I'd soon be out of a job.
The mill marks on the main putter bodies of milled from solid putters are just the minute chatter marks inherent in any machining operation and will vary from putter to putter depending on how new the cutter(s) were at the time they were machined. This is perfectly acceptable and does indeed indicate the milled from solid nature of these putters.
However, the generally rough milled surfaces on the face of the putters are produced by machining the face with an unusually high rate of feed across the surface. This gives the diamond "knurled" effect. This surface is not "more flat" than any other milled finish and in fact was an early precursor to the groove technology seen commonly on Rife and other putters.
The effect is twofold, firstly - the surface will grip the ball slightly and produce a better roll (allegedly)
second - the roughness of the finish will go some way to giving a contact on the ball which means that the dimples on the ball at the point of contact will not affect the contact. Essentially the point of contact on the ball is not necessarily exactly round due to the dimples.
How much difference any of this makes is debatable.
Some of the proprietry finishes on putters such as Bettinardi are produced by dropping the cutter onto the face in regular patterns and not by feeding across or along the face. His claim that this is in some way "more accurate" than the normal process is absurd.
In conclusion - if you like the looks then fine - but it is no indication of a better "flatter " surface.
Rod
I am a CNC miller to trade, and I can tell you this - If I produced work with a surface finish like these "milled faces" I'd soon be out of a job.
The mill marks on the main putter bodies of milled from solid putters are just the minute chatter marks inherent in any machining operation and will vary from putter to putter depending on how new the cutter(s) were at the time they were machined. This is perfectly acceptable and does indeed indicate the milled from solid nature of these putters.
However, the generally rough milled surfaces on the face of the putters are produced by machining the face with an unusually high rate of feed across the surface. This gives the diamond "knurled" effect. This surface is not "more flat" than any other milled finish and in fact was an early precursor to the groove technology seen commonly on Rife and other putters.
The effect is twofold, firstly - the surface will grip the ball slightly and produce a better roll (allegedly)
second - the roughness of the finish will go some way to giving a contact on the ball which means that the dimples on the ball at the point of contact will not affect the contact. Essentially the point of contact on the ball is not necessarily exactly round due to the dimples.
How much difference any of this makes is debatable.
Some of the proprietry finishes on putters such as Bettinardi are produced by dropping the cutter onto the face in regular patterns and not by feeding across or along the face. His claim that this is in some way "more accurate" than the normal process is absurd.
In conclusion - if you like the looks then fine - but it is no indication of a better "flatter " surface.
Rod
QUOTE(roguevfr @ Dec 22 2007, 06:30 AM)
At last a topic I feel I can make a useful contribution to ..
I am a CNC miller to trade, and I can tell you this - If I produced work with a surface finish like these "milled faces" I'd soon be out of a job.
The mill marks on the main putter bodies of milled from solid putters are just the minute chatter marks inherent in any machining operation and will vary from putter to putter depending on how new the cutter(s) were at the time they were machined. This is perfectly acceptable and does indeed indicate the milled from solid nature of these putters.
However, the generally rough milled surfaces on the face of the putters are produced by machining the face with an unusually high rate of feed across the surface. This gives the diamond "knurled" effect. This surface is not "more flat" than any other milled finish and in fact was an early precursor to the groove technology seen commonly on Rife and other putters.
The effect is twofold, firstly - the surface will grip the ball slightly and produce a better roll (allegedly)
second - the roughness of the finish will go some way to giving a contact on the ball which means that the dimples on the ball at the point of contact will not affect the contact. Essentially the point of contact on the ball is not necessarily exactly round due to the dimples.
How much difference any of this makes is debatable.
Some of the proprietry finishes on putters such as Bettinardi are produced by dropping the cutter onto the face in regular patterns and not by feeding across or along the face. His claim that this is in some way "more accurate" than the normal process is absurd.
In conclusion - if you like the looks then fine - but it is no indication of a better "flatter " surface.
Rod
I am a CNC miller to trade, and I can tell you this - If I produced work with a surface finish like these "milled faces" I'd soon be out of a job.
The mill marks on the main putter bodies of milled from solid putters are just the minute chatter marks inherent in any machining operation and will vary from putter to putter depending on how new the cutter(s) were at the time they were machined. This is perfectly acceptable and does indeed indicate the milled from solid nature of these putters.
However, the generally rough milled surfaces on the face of the putters are produced by machining the face with an unusually high rate of feed across the surface. This gives the diamond "knurled" effect. This surface is not "more flat" than any other milled finish and in fact was an early precursor to the groove technology seen commonly on Rife and other putters.
The effect is twofold, firstly - the surface will grip the ball slightly and produce a better roll (allegedly)
second - the roughness of the finish will go some way to giving a contact on the ball which means that the dimples on the ball at the point of contact will not affect the contact. Essentially the point of contact on the ball is not necessarily exactly round due to the dimples.
How much difference any of this makes is debatable.
Some of the proprietry finishes on putters such as Bettinardi are produced by dropping the cutter onto the face in regular patterns and not by feeding across or along the face. His claim that this is in some way "more accurate" than the normal process is absurd.
In conclusion - if you like the looks then fine - but it is no indication of a better "flatter " surface.
Rod
Very intersting Rod, Thank you!
QUOTE(roguevfr @ Dec 22 2007, 06:30 AM)
At last a topic I feel I can make a useful contribution to ..
I am a CNC miller to trade, and I can tell you this - If I produced work with a surface finish like these "milled faces" I'd soon be out of a job.
The mill marks on the main putter bodies of milled from solid putters are just the minute chatter marks inherent in any machining operation and will vary from putter to putter depending on how new the cutter(s) were at the time they were machined. This is perfectly acceptable and does indeed indicate the milled from solid nature of these putters.
However, the generally rough milled surfaces on the face of the putters are produced by machining the face with an unusually high rate of feed across the surface. This gives the diamond "knurled" effect. This surface is not "more flat" than any other milled finish and in fact was an early precursor to the groove technology seen commonly on Rife and other putters.
The effect is twofold, firstly - the surface will grip the ball slightly and produce a better roll (allegedly)
second - the roughness of the finish will go some way to giving a contact on the ball which means that the dimples on the ball at the point of contact will not affect the contact. Essentially the point of contact on the ball is not necessarily exactly round due to the dimples.
How much difference any of this makes is debatable.
Some of the proprietry finishes on putters such as Bettinardi are produced by dropping the cutter onto the face in regular patterns and not by feeding across or along the face. His claim that this is in some way "more accurate" than the normal process is absurd.
In conclusion - if you like the looks then fine - but it is no indication of a better "flatter " surface.
Rod
I am a CNC miller to trade, and I can tell you this - If I produced work with a surface finish like these "milled faces" I'd soon be out of a job.
The mill marks on the main putter bodies of milled from solid putters are just the minute chatter marks inherent in any machining operation and will vary from putter to putter depending on how new the cutter(s) were at the time they were machined. This is perfectly acceptable and does indeed indicate the milled from solid nature of these putters.
However, the generally rough milled surfaces on the face of the putters are produced by machining the face with an unusually high rate of feed across the surface. This gives the diamond "knurled" effect. This surface is not "more flat" than any other milled finish and in fact was an early precursor to the groove technology seen commonly on Rife and other putters.
The effect is twofold, firstly - the surface will grip the ball slightly and produce a better roll (allegedly)
second - the roughness of the finish will go some way to giving a contact on the ball which means that the dimples on the ball at the point of contact will not affect the contact. Essentially the point of contact on the ball is not necessarily exactly round due to the dimples.
How much difference any of this makes is debatable.
Some of the proprietry finishes on putters such as Bettinardi are produced by dropping the cutter onto the face in regular patterns and not by feeding across or along the face. His claim that this is in some way "more accurate" than the normal process is absurd.
In conclusion - if you like the looks then fine - but it is no indication of a better "flatter " surface.
Rod
What Rod says is true. I have worked as a manufacturing engineer in charge of over 20 milling machines, both horizontal and vertical. Milling marks are putter-marketing and in many other industries considered shoddy work. The flattest surfaces I have measured on a scanning CMM were done on a grinder.
i know TP mills never wanted to see mill marks on the face as i understand. TP would consider milling marks like these as unfinished putter. i owned some of his old handmades and hey are truly works of art.
Today, that is what the customer likes to
See. there is a cool factor with the putter community.
Click to view attachment
Today, that is what the customer likes to
See. there is a cool factor with the putter community.
Click to view attachment
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