I was so interested in the Macgregor Bobby Grace Face-Off DCT putter because of its advertised technology and the independent tests conducted by Golf Magazine. I decided to get one in eBay.

When I opened the box and looked at the putter, I noticed so many similarities to the Newport Squareback photos out in the net. But wait a minute, the Squareback hasn't been out yet, but the DCT1 has been out for a while now.

I realized that the similarities between the DCT1 and Squareback were there. Coincidental? Perhaps. Cameron borrowing ideas again? He has done it before. In the end it is up to you to decide.

But with the prices the DCT1 is going for now, there is no question that it is cheaper than whatever price Cameron will come up with for his Squareback (based on his pricepoints for previous putters). Based on the pics, my personal opinion is that the DCT1 has a better flow to the lines.

The DCT1 has tested technology, has a futuristic industrial look, and doesn't exactly have a face insert but an entirely interchangeable face.

So if you can't wait for the Newport Squareback to come out in the market, or if you want a cheaper alternative, or something with more technology behind it, then don't hesitate to give the DCT1 a spin. The yellow isn't as bad as it looks on the pics because it is matte and metallic.

Here are comparison pics between the DCT1, an original Newport Teryllium (which I refinished myself), and my gamer which is a Studio Stainless Mid Sur (whose sightline I painted red):

Huh? That looks nothing like a Squareback. Have you even seen a Squareback to make that accusation?

The squareback just looks like a Anser style head thats been squashed and stretched.

But I definitely think its kinda cool looking.

At the end of the day all of these are variations on the Anser theme. Scotty is not the only one that has copied one of the two most popular putter styles ever (8802 being the other).

I don't get all of this discussion about "stealing" putter designs. The Anser is generally acknowleged as the most copied of all time buy lot's of people who make great putters, not necesarrily the same as PING makes them.

I for one am strongly considering a 350 milled which is a Scottsdale design, but is different than anything I could by from PING.

I'm not a Scotty owner but shouldn't we give a rest.

I've said it on another board and I'll say it here...putters that don't remind you of anything are the ones that don't sell.

Scotty Basher! Burn HIM! lol jk. that looks nothing like a squareback

I've seen the DCT Response in person and I don't think anyone would confuse it for a Squareback. I just don't think they're that similar.

However, I think they are both ugly.

That' all I got.

Yes, the Squareback does look like that. Anybody that says any different doesn't see very well or they're willfully blind. That said, like the posters above, I'm sick of all this tattle-tale, who-copied-who nonsense. I think everyone should just be glad we're able to make the decision to buy, or not, and we have a lot of great putters to choose from. Just like my feelings toward politics...I'm tired of all the negativity.

Yep.

And you definitely can't have too much of a good thing.

How so? That they are both derived from an Anser design? That's where the similarities end. The Squareback is considerably wider than the DCT1 from face to bumpers.

The hosel placement's a little different and the topline's a little thicker on the Face Off and the flange may be extended a little more on the Squareback, but both are clearly Anser/Newport heads that have been extended, presumably in an effort to increase the MOI like a mallet. They're certainly not exact copies, but the technology and general headshape is the same. Regardless of your feelings about any particular putter maker, I don't see how anybody can REASONABLY disagree.

I'd also like to reiterate that I'm tired of all the negativity. Both look like very nice putters.

Believe me, there's no negativity in my posts in regards to this thread. To me, it is an obvious size difference that differentiates the Squareback and the DCT1. The DCT1 looks more like a Newport than a Squareback IMHO. You saying "Anybody that says any different doesn't see very well or they're willfully blind" is a pretty ignorant statement, considering the differences are obvious.

No matter if the "face-off" series resembles the new Scotty or not, give it a shot. Like most of the Macgregor / Bobby Grace products, it is highly underrated.

I edited my post, deleting most of it as it must have been written while I was experiencing attitudanul difficulties.
Yes, the Bobby Grace may indeed be a less expensive alternative to the Squareback. It has some serious differences, but the thought of an oversize Anser style head is still intact. I haven't had a chance to roll either of them, but would do so, if for nothing else than to be able to give a personal comparison.
I really do doubt that Scotty drew any inspiration from Bobby's design, but it is possible.
Sorry for adding a bit of drama for a while to a post that was mostly harmless. Roll them both and then decide......................if you can get at the Squareback. That pick-up of the DCT for $89 sounds pretty good.
Like I said, JMHO,
LaMont in AZ

Okay...I don't want to get into a pi$$ing contest about this. I guess we have different definitions of the word ignorant...as well as what it means to say something looks "the same." I'm well-informed, and I can see. I never said they were the same putter. There ARE obvious differences, and I think I even pointed the most obvious of those differences out in a prior post. That doesn't mean they don't look the same, or at least very similar (maybe saying they look "the same" is where the disagreement lies...by saying "the same," I don't mean identical) and aren't designs based on the same technology.

I believe these putters are very similar in both look and design and are based on the same technology. You have every right to disagree.

I would also like to reiterate what I said in my first post in this thread. I'd like to have a take-back of my "doesn't see well" or "willfully blind" comment. I should've known better.

Gauge Design Japan also had a huge Anser released a while back. IIRC it was more like a NP2/Anser2. Maybe someone can dig up pics from TSG.

I can't believe that nobody has accused Grace of stealing the interchangable faces from STX. If you're going to bring this thread to a boil, let's do it right.

I look forward to the original design that creates a new class of putter. The Anser has been done to death, mainly by Karsten before everyone else even jumped on the bandwagon. If anything, I'm amazed that there aren't more Zing styles out there. The Zing design was created in order to give better heel-toe weighting than Anser.

Well, you do have the Cameron Lagunas but you are right as we do not see many versions of the Zing.

Interesting comment about the STX. When I put the putter in play (and I have only done so once), one of my flightmates commented how it was like the STX. I don't know about the STX and haven't seen it, but I do believe you who say Bobby Grace borrowed from this design.

One thing I noticed about the club is that the hosel/plumber's neck is cast. It is quite obvious because anyone who is familiar with cast and milled can tell the difference between the sharper and straighter edges versus the more uneven look of the case. However, after the neck, there are milling marks all over the head which may mean that the neck was wielded to the body.

I thought this is interested to see real world in-hand comparison pics of the three putters because there is hardly any interest in these technologically advanced putters and it is hardly discussed in the putter boards.

The downside to this putter is that the feel is so muted, especially in the sweetspot. It sometimes feels more solid actually if you mishit it.

Perhaps it may have been a lapse in judgment to say that Cameron "borrowed" from Bobby Grace, and it may not be entirely the same putter. But I still stand by my statement that this putter may be a "cheaper alternative" to the Newport Squareback, for those people who are Scottsdale Anser fan and want that boxier look. The bonus for the DCT is that is has some technology in it, and that it is much cheaper. I snagged mine for $89 on eBay.

jick are you working for another company? It seems like a barage of anti Cameron propoganda.

As easy as it would be to believe that...

I think he's just stoking the fire and starting conversation. More or less the point of a forum.

A lot MORE than less on his Cameron topics. However I agree totally the forum is here just for this.

My Byron Nexus "reminds" me of the Squareback, it's from 2001. It isn't as pronounced, but is larger than a regular newport. Sorry no address pic, the pics are older and my camera is still boxed away from moving.

Jick,

Is there a reason that all your recent posts concerning Scotty Cameron follow a similar (negative) pattern?

Fall of the Cameron Empire/ Disappointment at rust in a Circle T/ should Titleist split from Scotty/shock horror could Scotty have "borrowed" inspiration for the Squareback from BG.

What I can't work out after all this is why you then game a Cameron. The negativity presented as a question or heads up about rust seems to be becoming a theme.

Why not keep it positive?

I agree...........there seems to be a recurring theme. I can't put my finger on it but there appears to be a hidden agenda.............JMHO...............

Take Care

Mark

I seem to remember more than a few Cameron guys NOT posting positive about Bettinardi in the past.

Don't dish out what you aren't willing to eat. And criticism can be constructive instead of just being complaints.

But the point is this guy posts stuff that degrades Cameron's indirectly, yet he games a Cameron. Now why is that?

I am embarrassed to say that I had forgotten about that putter from John Byron Golf. It was indeed a fair amount larger than the Anser, mostly in face to heel measurement, right? The first time I visited Byron's shop, this putter was still in prototype stage. Yeah, it has been a while.
Your putter must be a pretty rare piece, being left handed. It looks awesome.
Thanks for bringing this one back to the table and if you have a pic from address, that would be great to see. I am curious now, as to the difference in depth.
Thanks again,
LaMont in AZ

I really dont understand the copncept of people getting so upset about a golf club. What do you think we would be driving if no one refined/replicated the first car?

Or Compaq didn't back engineer the IBM PC? But I still believe Ping makes the best. I need to bite the bullet and buy one.

Isn't that kind of a closed minded-view of things?

Lots of players are willing to bag hybrids, high MOI/square drivers, and funky looking irons. Why does the putter have to look like an Anser? There are many shapes and sizes of putters that will put the ball in the hole just as fast (or faster for some players).

There are only so may ways you can re-badge the same putter. Open your mind people.

This thread is losing its fizz.

It has become a "every-putter-is-just-a-derivative-of-the-Anser" thread, when I was just trying to highlight that making a boxier Anser has been done by Bobby Grace before Cameron (and then someone posted that Byron even did something earlier). Cameron stretching abd "boxing" the Anser dimensions like that is not something that has not been done before. It has, and there are alternatives there and I am just pointing out that the Bobby Grace is a cheaper alternative.

Another point is the personal attacks against me. I hope someone can do a search of my posting history. Recently, I just posted pics of Cameron's actual gamer, and a revelation that he uses a variation of the claw grip, and a pic of him on the course. That was obviously for the benefit of the Cameron faithful. Then in another thread where I mentioned the possibility of putter makers ganing up on the consumer with less durable Winn grips, I gave credit to Cameron for still sticking with more durable rubber grips for his OTR releases. Also, just check the thread which is "My Cameron Restoration Hobby" which shows that I am the only one in my entire country who refinishes Cameron putters as a hobby and people from all over have begged me that they will have me refinish theirs too. Although I don't really want to turn this hobby into a business, I just cannot turn down some close friends, so for I do for a selected few and charge them actual cost which is like $20 including paintfill, restoration, stripping, and gunblueing (and no, I don't use the off-the-shelf bluing solutions, but more of the actual oxidation where people have to wear masks and the fumes smell ugly in the chemical baths). Don't you think that is cheap? It is for the love of putters, and I take no bias whether it is Cameron or another putter maker.

Look closely at one of the replies of this thread, and I was quick to point out that the DCT1 hosel is cast and not milled. I can take closeup pics for those who are interested. Also, I took out the DCT1 for a complete round today and used the titanium insert. I am not a big fan of it as the sweet spot sounds hollow and muted, while the less than solid putts are actually solid feeling. Go figure. But it generally had bad feel so I am not a big fan and have decided that it is not replacing my Cameron gamer anytime soon. But that is just me and you mileage may vary. But please stop the personal attacks and accusations against me. I hold nothing against Cameron.

This was the John Byron MNX putter,first pictures in copper and the last in Aluminum and steel. Then I have pictures of the updated Byron Golf Design As3. Last the S-4.. Byron has made 28 versions of the Anser putter.

I wonder the same question myself. I find myself attracted to Anser style putters and more traditional blades like the Coronado/Studio Design line. To me that is what a putter looked like since I began the game of golf.

I think it comes down to what people are comfortable with. A lot of golfers grew up playing an Anser-style head whether it was an old PING somebody had laying around or a putter that came in a starter set. For a person like myself, to make the change to a contemporary design would be a tough one.

Now, you get a golfer that has started within the past 5 years who had an open market of different MOI-style putters, it wouldn't be as tough because they were exposed to those putters from the get-go. Closest thing to an MOI putter on the market for me were the Zebra, Odyssey Rossie and Cameron Caliente.

Once one gets outside the classic Karsten or Mills designs there isn't much leeway for innovation, what we get are things like the Anser with a lump on the back or this new thick Anser. Scotty should take a leaf out of Ping's book, something he's no stranger to doing , and try making what people want for a sensible price instead of persisting with a rubbish standard line of putters and loads of expensive "limited" editions.

Cameron Squareback can't be replaced IMO.
Once they come to retail, I'd be happy to pay $300 for one.

Thanks for the pics of the Byron putters.

If Byron would still make those now, he would surely get a piece of the Anser "box-shape" market (if there is any that exist).

I honestly think that Byron's looks much better than the Bobby Grace, and probably plays much better after my not-so-good experience with the feel of the Grace.

Anyway aware of other similar putters (meaning Anser shape that is boxed up)?

IIRC GD had a Neo Blade but it was not just wider but longer as well. An Anser2 on steriods.