Scratch Wedge and Iron Question, Speak up if you have benefitted from the specialized grinds Options

[BCULAW]

I am a solid ball striker and fancy myself as a good iron player. I play a variety of shots, high, low, right, left, etc. Have maintained for a very long time that the most important thing for me is that the iron get through the turf properly. I have also maintained that very few have done so for me. Played thin soled blades for some time in an effort to alleviate the digging and bouncing I have experienced in the varying conditions here in Central Florida, but really have never fallen in love with any set of irons. My nike blades and Nike VR blades are the closest I have come to doing so, and I was considering picking another set up, but got to thinking that maybe the scratch custom grinds might be the answer.

As good as I am with the irons, I am horrible with full wedge shots. Very inconsistent distances (distance control with irons is usually VERY good for me). The ball rarely seems to come off the face of the wedge with anything behind it. Seems to slide up the club face with excessive trajectory and spin and really short distances, but when I play it back and try to knock it down I dig trenches. The low punch shots I hit so well with the other clubs in my bag just leave me with foot long divots and inconsistent distances with my wedges. I have long thought this was a swing issue (and it may very well be), but got to thinking that it might be a fitting issue as well. Maybe a properly fit wedge is the trick.

All this leads to this question - Have any of you had similar issues fixed by switching to the custom grind scratch products? I think I am a driver/slider. Are these issues common for that swing type?

Would love to hear thoughts from any of you who have found a fix with their products.

Thanks!

[JHCHOP]

Wow. Had the same problem as you early this year.

First, I game Scratch EZ1's and 1018 wedges in the D/S grind, and the grind made a huge improvement in getting on the ball. So, in answer to "do grinds make a dif", for me the dif was enormous.

I had the same thing going on with my wedges in terms of trying to move the ball back further and driving into the ground. Two things helped me. First, I flattened out my swing and shortened it just a bit....with the ball maybe a ball back from center.. Before a round on warm up, I hit about 10 to 15 wedge shots as 1/2 shots just to feel getting in the slot. Once that's dialed in, my wedges are money.

The other thing that helps is to try the above, but when you grip the club, remove your thumb and index finger of your right hand off the grip, so when you look down, you can see the whole grip above your right hand....that is now just holding on with your middle, ring and little fingers. To start, make some half shots, then 3/4, then go full, but resist the urge to let those two removed fingers get in on the action. Feels VERY weird in the beginning, but soon you'll start to feel a better move and release right at the ball. It's almost impossible to go really steep with that grip. Once it's grooved, you can grip normally and have better ball contact and stop digging trenches.Look it up on the Golf Channel website - it's called the pistol drill. Works great

This post has been edited by JHCHOP: Nov 7 2009, 03:40 PM

[rymail00]

I have been playing my Scratch irons for 3 months now and I really like them.

I was playing the Ping i10's. I was talking to Ari and I said I wanted them to play like my Ping's, bounce wise. He said the d/s grind would work perfectly. Throughout the ordering process I kept asking "Are you sure the d/s will be a good fit? Are you sure?" He kept saying yes.

So the whole time I was wondering if I made a mistake w/ the d/s grind? Nope, Ari was right.

Its very hard to explain the feeling. Its like it digs but then shoots out of the ground everytime. The interactions of grind and turf is really different then any of my old Ping sets. After playing them for about a month I considered switching out the shafts. So I took my old Ping i10 5,7 and 9 iron w/ me to the range. The first thing I noticed besides feel was how the different the grind/bounce was compared to my Scratch irons. Definitely nowhere as clean through impact as the Scratch is. Honestly the right grind makes a huge difference, I would have never thought so as much w/ the irons as it does the wedges, but it does.

Wedges, I was reluctant too. My i10's had matching pw,gap, and sw. These matching wedges gave me the most confidence out of any wedges I have played prior. I have played Vokey, and Ping Tour, and Cleveland wedges but never had much success w/ full shots. I had a hard time finding something w/ enough bounce. Plus where I live its very soggy in the early months and then drys out to a crsip the later months (the conditions vary alot.) I was thinking about having Ari maybe make an AR-1, 50* gap and 54* sw. but he said bending them that much would affect the bounce and grind to much. He suggested the 1018 wedges. Then I told him about my problems w/ finding wedges I liked, like I mention just minute ago. I told him I wanted something that could be used as for 3/4 to full shots, and out of the bunker, and 54*, he said that describes the TNC d/s grind. Also I wanted a 58* that could be used around the greens and I could open up for flops, and stuff. He said thats the 58* EGG.

So inconclusion do I think the grind grind could help you, in short, yes, no doubt. Drop Ari and email, not a PM, he will answer an email much quicker.

[azone]

Oh yes, the right grind/sole shape will make a huge difference in your ball contact and shot-making with the wedges.

Last month I got to tour the Scratch facility and try out some wedges during a round of golf at the Chattanooga outing. When I got home I sold 8 wedges (TM, Sonartec, Mac) and picked up 3 Scratch wedges. I carry two wedges with diff grinds which allow for a lot of different shots and have another suited for some special shots I may or may not need on a certain course.

I had worked on wedge grinding myself over the last year. The Scratch setups offer the ability to get exactly what you need in a great product. The right grind for me provides the ability to hit through the ball with confidence around the green. That is huge.

[benz5521]

I haven't tried all the grinds in the irons but I would imagine that the D/S grind would work for most people as long as you don't have a severely aggressive sweeping swing or you take monster divots. I could be wrong but I think the D/S grind is a safe bet for most people.

[rymail00]

Yes they are slightly more expensive than the OTR Vokey or Ping or Cleveland, but the quality and personalization is second to none. For the extra 20-30 bucks you can get the exact loft/lie/length, shaft, stampings, ferrules, grips, etc.

[jorgesgolf]

I have a 58* TNC grind L wedge and I've found it has worked nicely. Wedges I think are where the different grinds really shine.

About the irons though - don't many of the players cavity back sets from the OEMs have a "D/S" grind on them?

Someone said that they should work for most people. I agree and therefore, if you want to talk about the production of off-the-rack clubs where the manufacturers try designs/shafts/etc. that are going to work for the broadest number of people wouldn't a D/S grind fit the bill? It makes me wonder when someone says the iron grind is very important, but then they go to a D/S, which you could get from a lot of manufacturers.

FWIW, I'm coming from a set of Titleist 690 CBs, and I believe what is on them would be considered a D/S grind. I may be mistaken so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ryan

[rymail00]

I have a 58* TNC grind L wedge and I've found it has worked nicely. Wedges I think are where the different grinds really shine.

About the irons though - don't many of the players cavity back sets from the OEMs have a "D/S" grind on them?

Someone said that they should work for most people. I agree and therefore, if you want to talk about the production of off-the-rack clubs where the manufacturers try designs/shafts/etc. that are going to work for the broadest number of people wouldn't a D/S grind fit the bill? It makes me wonder when someone says the iron grind is very important, but then they go to a D/S, which you could get from a lot of manufacturers.

FWIW, I'm coming from a set of Titleist 690 CBs, and I believe what is on them would be considered a D/S grind. I may be mistaken so please correct me if I'm wrong.

Ryan

I would agree that most irons probably have mid bounce and grind for their OTR irons.

But my d/s grind has very close to the same bounce as my i10's (at least thats what Ari, told me, he said the d/s would be very close to the i10's bounce), but feel completely different feeling when interacting w/ the turf. Its really hard to explain. I wish I could say or explain it better, but I can't.

[BCULAW]

Thanks guys! Anyone else?

[Doc420]

On the Ds grind from Scratch they do grind some off the leading edge and that is something that you don't find from any of the oem's. the only place i have seen that is in custom sets. I think that is what makes all the difference in how you club reacts to different turf conditions.

[rymail00]

On the Ds grind from Scratch they do grind some off the leading edge and that is something that you don't find from any of the oem's. the only place i have seen that is in custom sets. I think that is what makes all the difference in how you club reacts to different turf conditions.

Yeah I agree.

I wish I could explain it better. Most of my sets have the same type of bounce #'s. But the d/s just feels different at impact down and through the turf. Like I said I wish I could explain bettter than "digs and the shoots out of the ground". There is just no other way to explain it. I get just about the same divot everytime, about 2-3" inches wide about 4" long (like a dollar bill). All at roughly the same depth too. Very. very consistent.

[chickenpotpie]

Bounce is only one part of the equation. Most players irons are lower bounce and narrow soled while GI irons are more mid to high bounce with mid to large sized soles. The GI irons are designed that way to appeal to a wide range of players and abilities, though it may not fit everyone perfectly. You never see any focus on swing type within a given iron set. They are what they are. For Scratch, they can tweak the leading edge grind and camber to give different playing characteristics, even though the bounce angle might be the same as another comparable club.

Having played D/D clubs, the grinds do work....but don't expect them to miraculously cure a bad swing. If you take divots that are 3" deep, it won't stop that.

[benz5521]

I have the D/S grind. If I wanted to take a little bit of the bounce off would bending them a degree strong make any noticeable difference at stopping thin shots?

[Chilidog]

Question on the SB-1s:

Are they a relatively small head (ie. TM MBs) or more of a midsize or large clubhead? I don't like the TM MBs for the very reason that they are such a small clubhead.

[benz5521]

Question on the SB-1s:

Are they a relatively small head (ie. TM MBs) or more of a midsize or large clubhead? I don't like the TM MBs for the very reason that they are such a small clubhead.

Then why don't you look at the EZ's? They have the thinnest topline out of the 3 Scratch irons and a narrow sole. Very little offset and have a longer clubhead from heel to toe.

[ballzo]

I think the sb-1 has a little rounder toe and therefor look a bit bigger if I remember correct. Very nice blade for sure.

[Chilidog]

I may...always have played musclebacks....love the ability to work them. Plus, it is just a sexy looking iron inspiring confidence for me.

Question on the SB-1s:

Are they a relatively small head (ie. TM MBs) or more of a midsize or large clubhead? I don't like the TM MBs for the very reason that they are such a small clubhead.

Then why don't you look at the EZ's? They have the thinnest topline out of the 3 Scratch irons and a narrow sole. Very little offset and have a longer clubhead from heel to toe.

[Pepperturbo]

I am a solid ball striker and fancy myself as a good iron player. I play a variety of shots, high, low, right, left, etc. Have maintained for a very long time that the most important thing for me is that the iron get through the turf properly. I have also maintained that very few have done so for me. Played thin soled blades for some time in an effort to alleviate the digging and bouncing I have experienced in the varying conditions here in Central Florida, but really have never fallen in love with any set of irons. My nike blades and Nike VR blades are the closest I have come to doing so, and I was considering picking another set up, but got to thinking that maybe the scratch custom grinds might be the answer.

As good as I am with the irons, I am horrible with full wedge shots. Very inconsistent distances (distance control with irons is usually VERY good for me). The ball rarely seems to come off the face of the wedge with anything behind it. Seems to slide up the club face with excessive trajectory and spin and really short distances, but when I play it back and try to knock it down I dig trenches. The low punch shots I hit so well with the other clubs in my bag just leave me with foot long divots and inconsistent distances with my wedges. I have long thought this was a swing issue (and it may very well be), but got to thinking that it might be a fitting issue as well. Maybe a properly fit wedge is the trick.

All this leads to this question - Have any of you had similar issues fixed by switching to the custom grind scratch products? I think I am a driver/slider. Are these issues common for that swing type?

Would love to hear thoughts from any of you who have found a fix with their products.

Thanks!

I can't say buying "scratch" solved my problem. But will say changing head designs in my irons helped immensely. Prior to going to a low bounce, narrow sole, minimal camber and sharp leading edge, my misses tended thin due to the head bouncing into the ball. That changed when I went to custom MacGregor blades. Today those blades are my backup irons. I switched to Callaway's in my sig in 07, and enjoy outstanding ball striking because of head design.

When it comes to wedges, I love low bounce. For a divot I strive for a clean scrap of turf which comes from low bounce straight and sharp leading edge head. One LW has 3-5* of low bounce with "V" grooves. My scratch LW has effective 10* but plays like a narrow sole low bounce head when squared to the target; and Scratch 54 has effective 10* of bounce (great club) I tend to use low bounce LW way more then scratch LW and always use Scratch 54. I will be ordering a Scratch custom low bounce 60* when they offer the new qualifying grooves.

[Golfingbanker]

I orginally had EZ's in the S/S grind after visiting Ari in OR. Back then I was sweeping solely due to casting the clubhead. After some lessons this past spring I began digging more and could tell that I was not getting an effective pass through the ball. So again I see Ari and he notices after two shots that I needed D/S. It was an expensive lesson for me, but very satisfying. I can now manuever my irons shots much easier and feel the ball much better through impact.

Had to change wedges too...

[Pepperturbo]

I have the D/S grind. If I wanted to take a little bit of the bounce off would bending them a degree strong make any noticeable difference at stopping thin shots?

A degree of bounce might help, but thin shots are caused by more then 1* of bounce. If you're a sweeper/picker to much camber and bounce as well as blunt leading edge coming in a bit to steep can contribute to bouncing into the ball hitting hit thin.

[duffer888]

In my experience, I bet you're flipping your wedge shots. Whenever I start to get a bit flippy, I get the feeling of the ball rolling up the face. Also, you may be too steep. I dig trenches with my wedges when I get too steep.

[Pepperturbo]

you call it a bit flippy, which seems to ruin your shot. I flip my left wrist upward at impact to impart more spin or exaggerate side spin, but I practice that shot.

[desaille]

grinds etc.. make a huge difference

also unless you've been fully fitted (multiple shots from various lies, real lies IE what scratch does, not hit 5 balls on a mat)
you might be surprised to what grind you really are