Who's the Arse?, Taking the joking a little too far? Options

[Bluefan75]

I accidentally gave One_Putt_Blunder the wrong yardage at We Ko Pa. Short Par 3, and I must have been getting the building behind the flag, because I got 156, and when he flew it by a mile, I figured something was up. The block in the ground said 121, and a re-shoot gave 118. Oops.

We weren't playing a match, but based on that, I told him to re-tee another and the first shot didn't happen.

I understand that you are just sharing a story and I thank you for the story, but there is a big difference between 156 yds and 118 yds.
I know that he or you or I might not be able to estimate the yardage to within a yard or two and maybe 10 yards, but if a player can't notice the difference between 118 yards and 156 yards I'm not sure knowing the yardage would actually help that golfer.
For most golfers, we are talking about the difference of the shot requiring a SW maybe PW for 118 yards and a 9,8, or 7 iron for 156 yards.
A golfer should definitely be able to stand over a shot and think "Hmm, that looks pretty short for an 8 iron I should be able to get there with a wedge".
When I first started golfing I played many courses that did not have any yardage markers.
I had to become fairly proficient at looking at my target and deciding what club would get me there.
I didn't even know the yardage I hit each club.
I just knew that my 9 iron won't make it and my 6 iron is too much, so it is either an 8 or a 7 iron.
The wind is a little in my face and the pin looks like it is on the back half of the green and the green is tilted toward me, so 7 iron it is.
I think that I made the correct club selection as often then as I do now using GPS or a Range Finder.
When your GPS or Range Finder says it's 175 Yards to the pin, you will almost automatically grab your club that you hit 175 yards on level ground with no wind and no hazards near the landing area to avoid.
This can sometimes simplify the game and take some thoughts and worries out of the shot for you.
If you don't use GPS or a Range Finder, you will enter many more variables into the equation such as how you are feeling at that time, are you fading the ball or drawing the ball today, are the greens soft or hard, is there danger behind the green, is the green tilted from back to front, which direction is the wind coming from, what is the speed of the wind, what club did the other guys in my group hit and what was the result, what club did you use and what happened the last time you had a similar looking distance, what type of shot do I want to hit, do I want to shoot at the pin or the center of the green etc...
I find that I do best by blending the two methods.
I look at the target and estimate the yardage in my head.
I double check or confirm that yardage with GPS or a Range Finder or yardage markers.
If they are close to the same I accept that yardage as accurate and I move on to gathering the other information I listed above.
I sometimes conclude that my "175 club" is not the right one for the shot and I move up or down a club or two depending on the results of the information I have gathered.
You will see a PGA Pro and his caddy have many conversations in the fairway discussing all aspects involved before committing to a club, target and type of shot that will be attempted.
I know it was your friend and not you that misjudged 118 yards as 156 yards, but go out and play an entire round without using anything, but your own judgment on deciding what the actual yardage is and what club to use and bring your depth perception challenged friend with you.
You will both learn a lot about how to use everything available to make a correct club selection without using any modern technology.
Using what you learn will improve your golf game and your friends golf game.

The gap may have been smaller than 38 yards, I have 156 in my head, but I may have given a smaller number for him not to really question. The point was that I accidentally gave the wrong yardage, which was significant enough for him to fly the green with a middle pin.

This is actually my first year with a rangefinder. I played probably 10 serious years without it, just going by stepping off and vision. I play at a very windy course, so if a person forgets to account for the wind, it takes about one hole to remember. The rangefinder has actually improved things for me because there have been cases where just stepping it off I would have said 7 iron, but after shooting the yardage, I think maybe I should hit an 8, and end up pin high. I don't have the yardage books and pin sheets that pros and caddies have to give yardages to different points on the holes either.

Considering his index is 4.0 and mine is 7.7, I chalked it up to a mistake. It was January and I shot a bad yardage. Not much more to it frankly IMHO.

[stevestrike]

"cheaty"??? Now is where i'd start to get pissed.

Cheaty is a term I just made up for how he likes to bend the rules without getting a violation called on himself. His drops get a little better or further from the hazard. His lies in the rough might get fluffed a little. His scoop up gimmie range might get a few inches longer. Sure, it's technically cheating, but you can't call a guy on "hey, it's a two club length drop, not 2 and half!"

[5under]

I accidentally gave One_Putt_Blunder the wrong yardage at We Ko Pa. Short Par 3, and I must have been getting the building behind the flag, because I got 156, and when he flew it by a mile, I figured something was up. The block in the ground said 121, and a re-shoot gave 118. Oops.

We weren't playing a match, but based on that, I told him to re-tee another and the first shot didn't happen.

I understand that you are just sharing a story and I thank you for the story, but there is a big difference between 156 yds and 118 yds.
I know that he or you or I might not be able to estimate the yardage to within a yard or two and maybe 10 yards, but if a player can't notice the difference between 118 yards and 156 yards I'm not sure knowing the yardage would actually help that golfer.
For most golfers, we are talking about the difference of the shot requiring a SW maybe PW for 118 yards and a 9,8, or 7 iron for 156 yards.
A golfer should definitely be able to stand over a shot and think "Hmm, that looks pretty short for an 8 iron I should be able to get there with a wedge".
When I first started golfing I played many courses that did not have any yardage markers.
I had to become fairly proficient at looking at my target and deciding what club would get me there.
I didn't even know the yardage I hit each club.
I just knew that my 9 iron won't make it and my 6 iron is too much, so it is either an 8 or a 7 iron.
The wind is a little in my face and the pin looks like it is on the back half of the green and the green is tilted toward me, so 7 iron it is.
I think that I made the correct club selection as often then as I do now using GPS or a Range Finder.
When your GPS or Range Finder says it's 175 Yards to the pin, you will almost automatically grab your club that you hit 175 yards on level ground with no wind and no hazards near the landing area to avoid.
This can sometimes simplify the game and take some thoughts and worries out of the shot for you.
If you don't use GPS or a Range Finder, you will enter many more variables into the equation such as how you are feeling at that time, are you fading the ball or drawing the ball today, are the greens soft or hard, is there danger behind the green, is the green tilted from back to front, which direction is the wind coming from, what is the speed of the wind, what club did the other guys in my group hit and what was the result, what club did you use and what happened the last time you had a similar looking distance, what type of shot do I want to hit, do I want to shoot at the pin or the center of the green etc...
I find that I do best by blending the two methods.
I look at the target and estimate the yardage in my head.
I double check or confirm that yardage with GPS or a Range Finder or yardage markers.
If they are close to the same I accept that yardage as accurate and I move on to gathering the other information I listed above.
I sometimes conclude that my "175 club" is not the right one for the shot and I move up or down a club or two depending on the results of the information I have gathered.
You will see a PGA Pro and his caddy have many conversations in the fairway discussing all aspects involved before committing to a club, target and type of shot that will be attempted.
I know it was your friend and not you that misjudged 118 yards as 156 yards, but go out and play an entire round without using anything, but your own judgment on deciding what the actual yardage is and what club to use and bring your depth perception challenged friend with you.
You will both learn a lot about how to use everything available to make a correct club selection without using any modern technology.
Using what you learn will improve your golf game and your friends golf game.

The gap may have been smaller than 38 yards, I have 156 in my head, but I may have given a smaller number for him not to really question. The point was that I accidentally gave the wrong yardage, which was significant enough for him to fly the green with a middle pin.

This is actually my first year with a rangefinder. I played probably 10 serious years without it, just going by stepping off and vision. I play at a very windy course, so if a person forgets to account for the wind, it takes about one hole to remember. The rangefinder has actually improved things for me because there have been cases where just stepping it off I would have said 7 iron, but after shooting the yardage, I think maybe I should hit an 8, and end up pin high. I don't have the yardage books and pin sheets that pros and caddies have to give yardages to different points on the holes either.

Considering his index is 4.0 and mine is 7.7, I chalked it up to a mistake. It was January and I shot a bad yardage. Not much more to it frankly IMHO.

Ahh, So you provided me with the wrong yardage too!
It's sort of like a perversion of facts.
I see how you are.
You are a yardage pervert.
Us fellow golfwrx forum members will try to help you with your problem, but you have be willing to admit that you have a problem first.

[5under]

"cheaty"??? Now is where i'd start to get pissed.

Cheaty is a term I just made up for how he likes to bend the rules without getting a violation called on himself. His drops get a little better or further from the hazard. His lies in the rough might get fluffed a little. His scoop up gimmie range might get a few inches longer. Sure, it's technically cheating, but you can't call a guy on "hey, it's a two club length drop, not 2 and half!"

I like the word "Cheaty".
It's sort of like having a girl friend and I try to get other girls in the sack and I can't talk them into it.
It's "Cheaty", but not really cheating.

[stevestrike]

Exactly. Some other cheaty things:

"Raking in" putts

Taking nicest point of relief instead of nearest

Taking a drop, and then rolling it around a bit if you don't like where it landed (why not just place it?)

Giving yourself a few extra yards of carry from where your ball actually entered a hazard

Dropping around trees or other obstacles to give you a clear shot, even if it's beyond 2 club lengths.

[5under]

Exactly. Some other cheaty things:

"Raking in" putts

Taking nicest point of relief instead of nearest

Taking a drop, and then rolling it around a bit if you don't like where it landed (why not just place it?)

Giving yourself a few extra yards of carry from where your ball actually entered a hazard

Dropping around trees or other obstacles to give you a clear shot, even if it's beyond 2 club lengths.

I like that "Nicest Point Of Relief"
It's almost the same thing. Isn't it?lol

[One_Putt_Blunder]

I accidentally gave One_Putt_Blunder the wrong yardage at We Ko Pa. Short Par 3, and I must have been getting the building behind the flag, because I got 156, and when he flew it by a mile, I figured something was up. The block in the ground said 121, and a re-shoot gave 118. Oops.

We weren't playing a match, but based on that, I told him to re-tee another and the first shot didn't happen.

I understand that you are just sharing a story and I thank you for the story, but there is a big difference between 156 yds and 118 yds.
I know that he or you or I might not be able to estimate the yardage to within a yard or two and maybe 10 yards, but if a player can't notice the difference between 118 yards and 156 yards I'm not sure knowing the yardage would actually help that golfer.
For most golfers, we are talking about the difference of the shot requiring a SW maybe PW for 118 yards and a 9,8, or 7 iron for 156 yards.
A golfer should definitely be able to stand over a shot and think "Hmm, that looks pretty short for an 8 iron I should be able to get there with a wedge".
When I first started golfing I played many courses that did not have any yardage markers.
I had to become fairly proficient at looking at my target and deciding what club would get me there.
I didn't even know the yardage I hit each club.
I just knew that my 9 iron won't make it and my 6 iron is too much, so it is either an 8 or a 7 iron.
The wind is a little in my face and the pin looks like it is on the back half of the green and the green is tilted toward me, so 7 iron it is.
I think that I made the correct club selection as often then as I do now using GPS or a Range Finder.
When your GPS or Range Finder says it's 175 Yards to the pin, you will almost automatically grab your club that you hit 175 yards on level ground with no wind and no hazards near the landing area to avoid.
This can sometimes simplify the game and take some thoughts and worries out of the shot for you.
If you don't use GPS or a Range Finder, you will enter many more variables into the equation such as how you are feeling at that time, are you fading the ball or drawing the ball today, are the greens soft or hard, is there danger behind the green, is the green tilted from back to front, which direction is the wind coming from, what is the speed of the wind, what club did the other guys in my group hit and what was the result, what club did you use and what happened the last time you had a similar looking distance, what type of shot do I want to hit, do I want to shoot at the pin or the center of the green etc...
I find that I do best by blending the two methods.
I look at the target and estimate the yardage in my head.
I double check or confirm that yardage with GPS or a Range Finder or yardage markers.
If they are close to the same I accept that yardage as accurate and I move on to gathering the other information I listed above.
I sometimes conclude that my "175 club" is not the right one for the shot and I move up or down a club or two depending on the results of the information I have gathered.
You will see a PGA Pro and his caddy have many conversations in the fairway discussing all aspects involved before committing to a club, target and type of shot that will be attempted.
I know it was your friend and not you that misjudged 118 yards as 156 yards, but go out and play an entire round without using anything, but your own judgment on deciding what the actual yardage is and what club to use and bring your depth perception challenged friend with you.
You will both learn a lot about how to use everything available to make a correct club selection without using any modern technology.
Using what you learn will improve your golf game and your friends golf game.

The gap may have been smaller than 38 yards, I have 156 in my head, but I may have given a smaller number for him not to really question. The point was that I accidentally gave the wrong yardage, which was significant enough for him to fly the green with a middle pin.

This is actually my first year with a rangefinder. I played probably 10 serious years without it, just going by stepping off and vision. I play at a very windy course, so if a person forgets to account for the wind, it takes about one hole to remember. The rangefinder has actually improved things for me because there have been cases where just stepping it off I would have said 7 iron, but after shooting the yardage, I think maybe I should hit an 8, and end up pin high. I don't have the yardage books and pin sheets that pros and caddies have to give yardages to different points on the holes either.

Considering his index is 4.0 and mine is 7.7, I chalked it up to a mistake. It was January and I shot a bad yardage. Not much more to it frankly IMHO.

Hahahah funny stuff Pat, I was actually gonna post the same thing but never got around to it.
the yardage you gave was 148 the actual yardage was 124. It was my fault for not double checking I knew the yardage was a bit off, but I just made the assumption that it was a back pin since that green is fairly deep. I hit a dead solid 8 iron and thought it was going to be real close then whoops there it goes right over the green
And to 5under dont know why I need to justify myself to you but my home track only had 150 yard markers and sporadic other markers at best, never really had any prob hitting 12-13 gir there so I can gauge yardage just fine.

Oh ya and to the op yours sounds a bit more intentional than what bluefans was to me. If that is the case dump your playing partners or just trust no one other than yourself for yardarge. I know I learned my lesson hahahahahahaha

This post has been edited by One_Putt_Blunder: Jul 7 2009, 04:37 PM

[Bluefan75]

I accidentally gave One_Putt_Blunder the wrong yardage at We Ko Pa. Short Par 3, and I must have been getting the building behind the flag, because I got 156, and when he flew it by a mile, I figured something was up. The block in the ground said 121, and a re-shoot gave 118. Oops.

We weren't playing a match, but based on that, I told him to re-tee another and the first shot didn't happen.

I understand that you are just sharing a story and I thank you for the story, but there is a big difference between 156 yds and 118 yds.
I know that he or you or I might not be able to estimate the yardage to within a yard or two and maybe 10 yards, but if a player can't notice the difference between 118 yards and 156 yards I'm not sure knowing the yardage would actually help that golfer.
For most golfers, we are talking about the difference of the shot requiring a SW maybe PW for 118 yards and a 9,8, or 7 iron for 156 yards.
A golfer should definitely be able to stand over a shot and think "Hmm, that looks pretty short for an 8 iron I should be able to get there with a wedge".
When I first started golfing I played many courses that did not have any yardage markers.
I had to become fairly proficient at looking at my target and deciding what club would get me there.
I didn't even know the yardage I hit each club.
I just knew that my 9 iron won't make it and my 6 iron is too much, so it is either an 8 or a 7 iron.
The wind is a little in my face and the pin looks like it is on the back half of the green and the green is tilted toward me, so 7 iron it is.
I think that I made the correct club selection as often then as I do now using GPS or a Range Finder.
When your GPS or Range Finder says it's 175 Yards to the pin, you will almost automatically grab your club that you hit 175 yards on level ground with no wind and no hazards near the landing area to avoid.
This can sometimes simplify the game and take some thoughts and worries out of the shot for you.
If you don't use GPS or a Range Finder, you will enter many more variables into the equation such as how you are feeling at that time, are you fading the ball or drawing the ball today, are the greens soft or hard, is there danger behind the green, is the green tilted from back to front, which direction is the wind coming from, what is the speed of the wind, what club did the other guys in my group hit and what was the result, what club did you use and what happened the last time you had a similar looking distance, what type of shot do I want to hit, do I want to shoot at the pin or the center of the green etc...
I find that I do best by blending the two methods.
I look at the target and estimate the yardage in my head.
I double check or confirm that yardage with GPS or a Range Finder or yardage markers.
If they are close to the same I accept that yardage as accurate and I move on to gathering the other information I listed above.
I sometimes conclude that my "175 club" is not the right one for the shot and I move up or down a club or two depending on the results of the information I have gathered.
You will see a PGA Pro and his caddy have many conversations in the fairway discussing all aspects involved before committing to a club, target and type of shot that will be attempted.
I know it was your friend and not you that misjudged 118 yards as 156 yards, but go out and play an entire round without using anything, but your own judgment on deciding what the actual yardage is and what club to use and bring your depth perception challenged friend with you.
You will both learn a lot about how to use everything available to make a correct club selection without using any modern technology.
Using what you learn will improve your golf game and your friends golf game.

The gap may have been smaller than 38 yards, I have 156 in my head, but I may have given a smaller number for him not to really question. The point was that I accidentally gave the wrong yardage, which was significant enough for him to fly the green with a middle pin.

This is actually my first year with a rangefinder. I played probably 10 serious years without it, just going by stepping off and vision. I play at a very windy course, so if a person forgets to account for the wind, it takes about one hole to remember. The rangefinder has actually improved things for me because there have been cases where just stepping it off I would have said 7 iron, but after shooting the yardage, I think maybe I should hit an 8, and end up pin high. I don't have the yardage books and pin sheets that pros and caddies have to give yardages to different points on the holes either.

Considering his index is 4.0 and mine is 7.7, I chalked it up to a mistake. It was January and I shot a bad yardage. Not much more to it frankly IMHO.

Ahh, So you provided me with the wrong yardage too!
It's sort of like a perversion of facts.
I see how you are.
You are a yardage pervert.
Us fellow golfwrx forum members will try to help you with your problem, but you have be willing to admit that you have a problem first.

Ok, then. good to know. I'll put you on my speed dial when for that time comes.

[xxio]

Maybe a stupid question, but did/could you have asked him about it once you got to the green? Is it possible he just made a mistake?

Oh we did, and it was 100% intentional. He gave us a bad yardage on purpose to mess with our game. He's the kind of player who's in a great mood--as long as he's winning. The trash talk flows like diarrhea of the mouth. But if the tables turn, and he isn't doing so well, then things are not funny anymore and he gets a little "cheaty".

With that being the case he is just rude and technically, subject to a penalty for intentionally giving you the wrong information. It's a sad commentary on him that he has to resort to such tactics to beat you and just says he has no confidence in his game. Beat him like a drum, often and hard. That's the best revenge.

The penalty for wrong information applies only to scores:

A player is deemed to have given wrong information if he:

(i) fails to inform his opponent as soon as practicable that he has incurred a penalty, unless (a) he was obviously proceeding under a Rule involving a penalty and this was observed by his opponent, or (b) he corrects the mistake before his opponent makes his next stroke; or

(ii) gives incorrect information during play of a hole regarding the number of strokes taken and does not correct the mistake before his opponent makes his next stroke; or

(iii) gives incorrect information regarding the number of strokes taken to complete a hole and this affects the opponent's understanding of the result of the hole, unless he corrects the mistake before any player makes a stroke from the next teeing ground or, in the case of the last hole of the match, before all players leave the putting green.

A player has given wrong information even if it is due to the failure to include a penalty that he did not know he had incurred. It is the player's responsibility to know the Rules.