Tips="Championship Tees" ...not "MEN'S" tees, right?, Too many bad golfers playing from the tips? Options

[Large David Hamm...]

I was taught the game in a very old school way by my grandfather. When it comes to playing from the tips, it was always explained to me that only EXCEPTIONAL golfers should play from the "Championship Tees".

Red tees=ladies/seniors/juniors
Whites=men and long-hitting, awesome women golfers
Blues=GREAT GOLFERS who hit it far

No?

So why are "The Blues" being played by so many guys out there, as though they are the "Men's" tees? You know who you are, you slow us all down. I've seen so many 20 'cappers playing the blues. Since when did "the tips" become the standard men's tees? Am I missing something? Shouldn't the tips be reserved for guys with a 5 hdcp. or better? If not, who then?

Is it just b.s. ego? Why do you guys keep playing from the blues when we'd all enjoy it more if you played from the whites?...time of play, better scores, etc...

It reminds me of the guys who wait in the fairway of a par 5 from 230, for the green to clear, and then top their shot 45 yards while I'm on the tee waiting to hit, losing my rhythm.

It's an etiquette issue to me. "Move along!" If you can't reach the green on a par 4, with driver+3wood, you're playing from the wrong tees, no?

Anybody else getting fed up with this?

[frozen_rope]

For awhile it was trendy for courses to recommend all the way back (0-4 handicap), next set up (5-10 handicap), 3rd set up (10-18 handicap), most forward tees (18 and higher handicap). This made sense to me but I notice that golf courses are no longer promoting "recommended tees".
My own preference is to have handicaps higher than 18 play par 3 courses until they get the skills to play a full length course reasonably well. It is no fun for anybody when a guy is out there shooting 100. I would like to see more par 3 courses and driving ranges built and used so that people could properly develop some skills and get more enjoyment from the game. I know that from an economic perspective golf courses are built to sell fairway home lots , and par 3 courses do not fit that business model, but for the health of the game par 3 courses make more sense than full length layouts.

I was taught the game in a very old school way by my grandfather. When it comes to playing from the tips, it was always explained to me that only EXCEPTIONAL golfers should play from the "Championship Tees".

Red tees=ladies/seniors/juniors
Whites=men and long-hitting, awesome women golfers
Blues=GREAT GOLFERS who hit it far

No?

So why are "The Blues" being played by so many guys out there, as though they are the "Men's" tees? You know who you are, you slow us all down. I've seen so many 20 'cappers playing the blues. Since when did "the tips" become the standard men's tees? Am I missing something? Shouldn't the tips be reserved for guys with a 5 hdcp. or better? If not, who then?

Is it just b.s. ego? Why do you guys keep playing from the blues when we'd all enjoy it more if you played from the whites?...time of play, better scores, etc...

It reminds me of the guys who wait in the fairway of a par 5 from 230, for the green to clear, and then top their shot 45 yards while I'm on the tee waiting to hit, losing my rhythm.

It's an etiquette issue to me. "Move along!" If you can't reach the green on a par 4, with driver+3wood, you're playing from the wrong tees, no?

Anybody else getting fed up with this?

[howdyho]

Having a high handicap doesn't always mean you're a slow player. The problem is some of these high handicappers (and even your low handicappers) have no sense of pace and just take a good ol' time finishing out a hole. When I first started playing golf, I had a few rules for myself:

1) I buy cheap used balls and bring a lot of them with me. If I hit one into the woods, I just drop another ball instead of wasting time looking for the lost ball. One ball only cost me a few cents so I'm not going to cry about it.

2) If I can't hit my ball near the green with my 3rd shot, I'll go get the ball and pick it up and just drop it on or near the green.

3) If the ball is in thick rough or bunker, I only allow myself one swing at it. If unsuccessful, pick up the ball and place it in the fairway or green.

[HoosierGolfer]

Having a high handicap doesn't always mean you're a slow player. The problem is some of these high handicappers (and even your low handicappers) have no sense of pace and just take a good ol' time finishing out a hole. When I first started playing golf, I had a few rules for myself:

1) I buy cheap used balls and bring a lot of them with me. If I hit one into the woods, I just drop another ball instead of wasting time looking for the lost ball. One ball only cost me a few cents so I'm not going to cry about it.

2) If I can't hit my ball near the green with my 3rd shot, I'll go get the ball and pick it up and just drop it on or near the green.

3) If the ball is in thick rough or bunker, I only allow myself one swing at it. If unsuccessful, pick up the ball and place it in the fairway or green.

WOW! I like this idea. Great way to get my HC back down.......

[Greenie]

I agree to many people are playing from the tips that shouldn't.As far as you bringing in the handicap part I disgree.I think you should play from the blues if they have the length to do so period.Yes if you are hitting a driver and 3w on a par 4 you don't have the length and really you are missing out on the design of the course and not playing the course as intended.The heart of the mater is etiquette.I see less of it period.Case in point the other week the group in front of us were playing from the blues.Now most of the time 3 of the 4 after their tee shots were around the red tees.Now this would have got me in a uproar but they let us play thru quickly so if they wanted to play from the blues it didn't mater to me.The hole we passed them on was a par 5 dogleg right.For me playing from the whites I need tee off with my 3w to make the turn.They had teed off with there drivers and since none of them made the dogleg they said hey you all better play thru. The one guy mentions the course is nice but not layed out very well..LOL Now we are up on the next group.We are the 20 handicap group on the course.(I am 15hc) but we play fast.The group ahead also playing from the blues were real good..I geuss they thought they were to good to have any etiquette.We were stuck behind them the rest of the day waiting and waiting.They played as slow as the pros.I certainly don't need to walk around the whole green to catch every break and remark my ball for a 12 inch putt.No, missing 12 inch putts is not why I am a 15hc.so don't say I should do all that too.My point is etiquette and commom sense .There are a high number of golfers good and bad on the course that only care about them selves .Slow golfers should let faster ones play thru period then I wouldn't care if you want to play from the blue tees or stop and look for all the balls you can find.As long as it isn't affecting me you payed your money too but so did I..

RIP Kenny: You always wanted to play from the blues so you could get more swings in for your money.I miss you.......

[chaley6077]

I was taught the game in a very old school way by my grandfather. When it comes to playing from the tips, it was always explained to me that only EXCEPTIONAL golfers should play from the "Championship Tees".

Red tees=ladies/seniors/juniors
Whites=men and long-hitting, awesome women golfers
Blues=GREAT GOLFERS who hit it far

No?

So why are "The Blues" being played by so many guys out there, as though they are the "Men's" tees? You know who you are, you slow us all down. I've seen so many 20 'cappers playing the blues. Since when did "the tips" become the standard men's tees? Am I missing something? Shouldn't the tips be reserved for guys with a 5 hdcp. or better? If not, who then?

Is it just b.s. ego? Why do you guys keep playing from the blues when we'd all enjoy it more if you played from the whites?...time of play, better scores, etc...

It reminds me of the guys who wait in the fairway of a par 5 from 230, for the green to clear, and then top their shot 45 yards while I'm on the tee waiting to hit, losing my rhythm.

It's an etiquette issue to me. "Move along!" If you can't reach the green on a par 4, with driver+3wood, you're playing from the wrong tees, no?

Anybody else getting fed up with this?

I pretty much agree with all of this. It's frustrating to watch someone struggle unecessarily and, although I certainly don't think it's intended this way, it's also comes off as somewhat disrespectful to those of us who have put in the time and sweat to have a game to play well from the tips.

Ultimately, however, I question whether these same issues arise regardless of what tee someone plays from? If someone isn't a skilled player, they just aren't a skilled player and they aren't going to hit consistenly good shots regardless of what tee they hit from. Personally, in a lot of cases, I don't see it as having a huge impact on me if someone wants to play a tee box that isn't the right one for them. They'll make it a lot more frustrating for themselves but if they otherwise play ready golf (a big if, I know) I just don't see that it really impacts me too much.

But in general, I agree...if someone's playing a course that has 240 yard forced carries from the tips they shouldn't play from those tips if their longest tee ball tops out at 230 w/ roll. I really like seeing new golfers and the life-long hackers out on the course knocking it around and having fun (so long as they have etiqutte), but golf's definitely hard enough without setting yourself up for failure.

[stage1350]

Enforcement of rules and etiquette by the course has given way to generating revenue to stay afloat. They don't care if a bunch of chops want to play a set of boxes that are too far back as long as they pay in cash.

[chipper3344]

They way people look at it IMO is that they are paying $100 for a round of golf therefore they will play the tees they want. If the course tells you that you cant play a specific set of tees most likely those customers won't come back. As long as you're not holding up people play from the most difficult set of tees if that's what you like.

[bennycoop9882]

For awhile it was trendy for courses to recommend all the way back (0-4 handicap), next set up (5-10 handicap), 3rd set up (10-18 handicap), most forward tees (18 and higher handicap). This made sense to me but I notice that golf courses are no longer promoting "recommended tees".
My own preference is to have handicaps higher than 18 play par 3 courses until they get the skills to play a full length course reasonably well. It is no fun for anybody when a guy is out there shooting 100. I would like to see more par 3 courses and driving ranges built and used so that people could properly develop some skills and get more enjoyment from the game. I know that from an economic perspective golf courses are built to sell fairway home lots , and par 3 courses do not fit that business model, but for the health of the game par 3 courses make more sense than full length layouts.

I was taught the game in a very old school way by my grandfather. When it comes to playing from the tips, it was always explained to me that only EXCEPTIONAL golfers should play from the "Championship Tees".

Red tees=ladies/seniors/juniors
Whites=men and long-hitting, awesome women golfers
Blues=GREAT GOLFERS who hit it far

No?

So why are "The Blues" being played by so many guys out there, as though they are the "Men's" tees? You know who you are, you slow us all down. I've seen so many 20 'cappers playing the blues. Since when did "the tips" become the standard men's tees? Am I missing something? Shouldn't the tips be reserved for guys with a 5 hdcp. or better? If not, who then?

Is it just b.s. ego? Why do you guys keep playing from the blues when we'd all enjoy it more if you played from the whites?...time of play, better scores, etc...

It reminds me of the guys who wait in the fairway of a par 5 from 230, for the green to clear, and then top their shot 45 yards while I'm on the tee waiting to hit, losing my rhythm.

It's an etiquette issue to me. "Move along!" If you can't reach the green on a par 4, with driver+3wood, you're playing from the wrong tees, no?

Anybody else getting fed up with this?

Honestly, I think more courses should do something good for the game of golf like helping higher handicap players hone there skills instead of shuffling through anyone with a pulse on a 7400 yard track just so they can make a profit right then and there. The problem with this approach is that it frustrates a lot of players into quiting golf and the result is that there really hasn't been an increase in golfers in several years (maybe 10 or more). There are new ones for sure but they only end up replacing the ones who have quit. Its too many developers trying to make quick bucks and not enough people with foresight trying to grow the game.

[Jean-Claude]

I think the problem lies in players not letting notably faster players play through. Who cares where someone else plays from as long as they don't hold others up. A hacker will take practically just as long from the tips as from the ladies tees.

[tjy355]

A hacker will take practically just as long from the tips as from the ladies tees.

This I would disagree with to some extent. On many old school courses, there really isn't a big difference but on many modern courses especially ones that offer multiple tees and stretch way beyond 7000 yards, playing from the tips often involves long and accurate tee shots just to reach the turf not to mention the tension induced when facing such a shot also factors in to promote a bad swing from a less skilled golfer. In addition, longer second shots mean less accuracy, missed greens, more shots from rough and bunkers. Longer par 3's, meaning less greens hit, more shots from rough and bunkers, etc... It all adds up to more lost balls, more shots taken, and longer time to play.

My thoughts regarding choice of tees: the course itself should be considered, overall length as well as difficulty (rating/slope) along with the golfers skill.

[bigred90gt]

My own preference is to have handicaps higher than 18 play par 3 courses until they get the skills to play a full length course reasonably well. It is no fun for anybody when a guy is out there shooting 100. I would like to see more par 3 courses and driving ranges built and used so that people could properly develop some skills and get more enjoyment from the game. I know that from an economic perspective golf courses are built to sell fairway home lots , and par 3 courses do not fit that business model, but for the health of the game par 3 courses make more sense than full length layouts.

This, I disagree with completely. When I started, I was shooting well over 100. If there was no one in front of us, I was shooting these scores in 2.5 - 3.5 hour rounds (as a 2 - 4some). If there were people in front of us, we kept up with them just fine. High scores are not always indicative of slow play. I could go out at the country club I used to have a membership at, and shoot 95 in right at 2 hours. I would have told someone to get f'ed if they told me I HAD to play par three courses until I improved my skills. Even when I was shooting ridiculously high scores, I still had plenty of fun, because I had no expectations for my game.

[grizzlyblades]

with today's technology in club design, most people who have an intermediate understanding of the golf swing should be able to hit 220+ off the tee with their driver. bring back 195cc drivers and I BET most of us will be teeing off in the white box.

hitting 300 is no big deal anymore. that is why most people are hitting from the blues.

[vgagolfer]

OP, I think you're missing the point. I don't think the question should be what tees they should play but how fast they should play. I agree it's an ego thing but I think it's also an ego thing to question what tees other should be playing too. It's like you can't fathom why someone isn't playing on the same tee as you since they're not as good.

To me, I don't care if someone shoots 150 or what tee they're on, if they can play in 4 hours, that's all that matters.

I apologize if it sounds like I'm attacking you. I'm not trying to, just that I think you should view it a different way.

This post has been edited by vgagolfer: Jun 9 2009, 12:49 PM

[Diesel]

if you can't drive the ball more than 230 yards STRAIGHT, stay off the back tees for goodness sakes... if you can hit it only 230 but hit the fairway, i don't see an issue with shorter players playing from those tees...

it's the sprayers that annoy me from back there... i personally never play the tips simply cause i'm a sprayer...

it all boils down to common sense IMO...

[jhy1281]

But i think this has more to do with people that play in a group together that all want to play the same tees. 4 guys who are competitive by nature: 2 single digit hcpers, 1 low mid handicapper, and 1 mid-high handicapper playing for money. Guess which tees they play: the tips. Surely its an ego thing especially with money on the line or the single digit cappers taking advantage of the other two.

So many scenarios in this one i would think. scratch golfer that drives 220 yds with excellent short game, high handicapper that hits 260+ that can't hit a half wedge to save his life.

I dont think there is a problem until they start holding up the course. But everyone hits a wayward shot once in a while that may require some search and rescue mission. But in general I found that most people that play from the back are either good enough or are forced to play from back because they can't allow their ego to be diminished by playing from the shorter tees than other guys in the group.

[Greenie]

Reading over the responses I keep seeing etiquette, common sense, speed of play as the key points not as much what tee you are playing from. OP ,you mentioned they slowed you down. I am sure part of that was because they were playing from the tips but were you more irratated with that fact or that they slowed you down?Would you be posting this if the let you play thru fast? Did they let you play thru? I am geussing no..
And for the others saying the high handicappers should play the par threes courses. I bet there are alot more people supporting golf courses that shoot over a hundred then they are under.You keep them off a regular course and see how many more courses fold up.

[larrybud]

I was taught the game in a very old school way by my grandfather. When it comes to playing from the tips, it was always explained to me that only EXCEPTIONAL golfers should play from the "Championship Tees".

Red tees=ladies/seniors/juniors
Whites=men and long-hitting, awesome women golfers
Blues=GREAT GOLFERS who hit it far

No?

So why are "The Blues" being played by so many guys out there, as though they are the "Men's" tees?

Because it's silly to go by color. With your rationale, it's OK to play whites on Course A that measure 6800 yards, but not OK to play the blues on Course B that measure 6100 yards.

What about the courses that have 5 tee boxes, none of which are red, white or blue? Then what do you do?

Or what about my course that has tee box names, instead of color!?!?!

Now, sure, there are some people that are playing tee boxes that are too difficult for them, but to pigeon hole it into one big rule of thumb based on an arbitrary attribute such as the color of the tee markers (rather than the actual difficult of the tee box) doesn't make any sense.

[larrybud]

My own preference is to have handicaps higher than 18 play par 3 courses until they get the skills to play a full length course reasonably well. It is no fun for anybody when a guy is out there shooting 100.

90% of my golf league members shoot 100 (some WAAAY more), they're all having fun, and they'll never be better than an 18 handicap for as long as they live.

I think you live in a golfing cocoon, and don't really live in golf reality land. Most people don't practice, AT ALL, EVER. Most people play just once a week, or less. So they all shouldn't be allowed to play a full length course, even though they can keep pace?

[larrybud]

if you can't drive the ball more than 230 yards STRAIGHT, stay off the back tees for goodness sakes... if you can hit it only 230 but hit the fairway, i don't see an issue with shorter players playing from those tees...

it's the sprayers that annoy me from back there... i personally never play the tips simply cause i'm a sprayer...

it all boils down to common sense IMO...

Why 230? Why not 220, or 240? Where do you guys come up with these arbitrary numbers?

What about the guy that hits it no more than 200, but straight, compared to the guy that hits it 280, but crazy, and is looking for his golf ball all the time?

[frozen_rope]

Hackers scoring 100 are not having fun on the golf course, or at least not near as much as they would have with some control over their golf ball.
This is one of the primary reasons the game of golf and its industry suffers.
Par 3 courses and driving ranges , not full length courses, are the ideal place to learn some golf skills. I understand that the majority of players on a full length course are playing worse than bogey golf, and that's not good for anybody.

My own preference is to have handicaps higher than 18 play par 3 courses until they get the skills to play a full length course reasonably well. It is no fun for anybody when a guy is out there shooting 100.

90% of my golf league members shoot 100 (some WAAAY more), they're all having fun, and they'll never be better than an 18 handicap for as long as they live.

I think you live in a golfing cocoon, and don't really live in golf reality land. Most people don't practice, AT ALL, EVER. Most people play just once a week, or less. So they all shouldn't be allowed to play a full length course, even though they can keep pace?

[jhy1281]

frozen- my mother who was born in 58 plays to a 24 hcp but she has roller coaster days where she shoots 110 one day and mid 80s another. but she plays ready golf and if her ball goes in deep rough and she looks around briefly and can't find it, she'll take a stroke and drop and hit away. Her drives avg 175-200 and she plays from the front tees 5200-5800yd range but I never heard or see anyone complain about the pace she plays even when she scores high.

the main problem with high handicappers are pace of play not much else. granted if they play from shorter tees, they might take less time, but i've seen scratch golfers take heat for taking forever on the greens. I mean, these guys get on green really fast but then take awhile putting and they'd get called out for it. So i guess i would have to rephrase my statement above. "SLOW PACE SUCKS"

[DanZ]

Par 3 courses help with your short game sure, but where else do you practice your long game but at a real course? Sure you can go to the driving range all you want, but how many threads are there on this board about how to bring your range game to the course? It seems to me that for most people the main way to get better at playing long courses is to keep playing long courses.

My friend and I golf pretty frequently and I hit it pretty far and play to about 16 handicap. I like to play from the tips or one forward from the tips at most courses. My friend doesn't hit it very far most of the time and plays to about 36 handicap. Since I want to play from the back tee's, he plays back there with me 90% of the time. The only time he might not do that is if the other players in our groups are also friends and they want to play from the whites.

This post has been edited by DanZ: Jun 9 2009, 03:42 PM

[TitleistWI]

IMO, it boils down to ego. I see plenty of people playing from the blue tees who have no business play from the tees. If you are teeing off the blues and you tee shot doesnt even clear the red tee box, you have no business playing from the blues.
I think part of the problem is not letting faster players though. If you want to play from the blues and feel like a toughguy even though you are a hack, thats fine with me but if you see me waiting on you, at least have the decency to let me play through.

[frozen_rope]

Par three courses usually require wedge through 7-iron tee ball shots.
This is exactly the range of clubs ideally suited to learn and groove a solid golf swing. If a player can make consistently square ball contact using short irons then he will automatically see great results with longer clubs and metal woods.
However, swinging long clubs while developing swing technique is counter productive. Truly it is pointless for a guy to ever have a mid iron or longer club in his hands until he can consistently and repeatedly strike solid shots with short irons.
Along the same lines, "established" players should never strike many long clubs during range practice. Practicing with wedges, 9-irons, 8-irons etc... breeds good swing rhythm and timing.

Par 3 courses help with your short game sure, but where else do you practice your long game but at a real course? Sure you can go to the driving range all you want, but how many threads are there on this board about how to bring your range game to the course? It seems to me that for most people the main way to get better at playing long courses is to keep playing long courses.

My friend and I golf pretty frequently and I hit it pretty far and play to about 16 handicap. I like to play from the tips or one forward from the tips at most courses. My friend doesn't hit it very far most of the time and plays to about 36 handicap. Since I want to play from the back tee's, he plays back there with me 90% of the time. The only time he might not do that is if the other players in our groups are also friends and they want to play from the whites.

[hack]

I think the most important thing to consider is time it is taking you to finish the hole. If you hacking around and taking forever to get through a course, be couteous and either pick up to keep up pace or let people through.

I don't think length or handicap should be the only things considered when choosing a tee box. When I first started playing, I was plenty long, but not very straight my bad misses were a big slice. If I was playing from the back I would hit it 275 out and 50 yards right, if I was playing from the front I'd hit it 275 out and 50 yards right. Different tee boxes, same result. Now my handicap (~12) suffers a bit from shortgame limitations and mental lapses, but the drives are typically good length and usually straight. If I am playing from the front or back I will take the same amount of time to finish a hole. Regardless of the tee chosen, we are aware of our surroundings and respectful of pace of play.


At the same time, I occasionally play with a guy that isnt too long off the tee, but very straight and very accurate with all clubs.

This post has been edited by hack: Jun 9 2009, 04:14 PM

[DefConOne]

imo if a golfer has to hit fairway woods or hybrids on approach to most of the par fours, he's playing from the wrong tees. even the pros have problems hitting greens using fairway woods.

btw, the average drive, even with all the latest technology, is 197 yards according to some research i read. i think it was frank thomas.

[bigred90gt]

Par three courses usually require wedge through 7-iron tee ball shots.
This is exactly the range of clubs ideally suited to learn and groove a solid golf swing. If a player can make consistently square ball contact using short irons then he will automatically see great results with longer clubs and metal woods.
However, swinging long clubs while developing swing technique is counter productive. Truly it is pointless for a guy to ever have a mid iron or longer club in his hands until he can consistently and repeatedly strike solid shots with short irons.
Along the same lines, "established" players should never strike many long clubs during range practice. Practicing with wedges, 9-irons, 8-irons etc... breeds good swing rhythm and timing.

If that were truly the case, than anyone who could hit a solid pitching wedge could hit a 48" LDA driver no problem. As everyone with any knowledge of the game knows, that just isnt true. Trying to justify a statement such as people who cannot break 90 should play only par 3 courses just isnt going to happen.

[Diesel]

if you can't drive the ball more than 230 yards STRAIGHT, stay off the back tees for goodness sakes... if you can hit it only 230 but hit the fairway, i don't see an issue with shorter players playing from those tees...

it's the sprayers that annoy me from back there... i personally never play the tips simply cause i'm a sprayer...

it all boils down to common sense IMO...

Why 230? Why not 220, or 240? Where do you guys come up with these arbitrary numbers?

What about the guy that hits it no more than 200, but straight, compared to the guy that hits it 280, but crazy, and is looking for his golf ball all the time?

you're right it was an arbitrary number that i picked out of the air, but i thought about it for a little... if you can only muster 200 yards off the tee, playing 6800-7200 yards is going to be a tough task... at least the 30-40 extra yards is going to make it a little more enjoyable even if both players hit it dead straight most of the time...

everyone is going to do what they want... just expect to have people behind you to be annoyed...

[kentutz]

Wow.. seeing some of the replies... some of you are really cocky to say the least..!! Who are you to tell anyone where they should be teeing off at? It's not where you tee off or how great you play, but whether or not you can keep up with the pace of the course that day.

If Sergio was to play from the red but takes 10 minutes each shot, I would give him a sleep holder..

[ezra76]

The tips are black. I play them in the evenings when I play with a kid who is a Div 1 player. Only difference is one par 4 I hit 3W instead of 5W off the tee and the par 3's are 10yds. longer. Every other hole the blacks and blues are the same tees on the front. On the back a few are 10yds. longer but they are elevated more so the distance is the same. On the finishing par 5 I actually hit it longer off the blacks since they are only 5yds. back but 10ft. higher up.

Seems to be like that at all the courses that have champ. tees. The blacks are only really longer on the par 3's.

This post has been edited by ezra76: Jun 9 2009, 05:01 PM

[frozen_rope]

Actually, relatively few players have ever struck a pitching wedge truly solid, or for that matter struck a putt truly square-solid.
However, since there is a large margin for error with short irons and putters, people mistakenly think the "playable" mishits they make are actually solid shots.
When I suggest a player develop and groove his swing to strike solid shots with wedges and short irons ; I mean solid, truly square ball contact. This is much more challenging to do than most amateurs realize. Without a doubt if a player is actually striking solid short irons then he can pick up a fairway wood or driver and get excellent results.

If that were truly the case, than anyone who could hit a solid pitching wedge could hit a 48" LDA driver no problem. As everyone with any knowledge of the game knows, that just isnt true. Trying to justify a statement such as people who cannot break 90 should play only par 3 courses just isnt going to happen.

[gjjdemarco]

From what I understand, handicap/gender/age has nothing to do with which tees you should be hitting from.

I think the last place I saw this formula was Golf Digest (but I have seen it in a bunch of places), but you should take your average 5-iron distance and multiply it by 36. And you should be playing the tees that represent that total distance.

ex. If you hit your 5i 170, that would be 6120. Whichever teebox is closest to that yardage, that's the one you should be playing from.

Naturally, low cappers can generally hit the ball farther/better/more consistently than the highs, so GENERALLY lows would play 'longer' tees than a 20hcp, but that is not always the case.

If a 20hcp can beat the $*!^ out of it, he should play longer tees than the 4hcp who is right down the middle, but only 150 w/ a 5i.

Pace of play is the only issue here. If you play the tees that your YARDAGE says you should, and as long as you keep up pace, you should finish on time. ex. If you are a 20hcp and SHOULD be playing from the blues b/c you hit very long, then what would be the difference if you hit it in the woods from the blues or the whites? Nothing. Just keep up pace and keep playing the blues, that's where you should be.

The colors began to represent names almost as stereotypes as to the people who played to those distances. I have played with plenty 'seniors' and 'juniors' who can hit a hell of a lot farther than me, but I had to play from the 'mens' while my 15yr old nephew smashes it from the 'juniors' about 85yds past me. He still brings that up. Punk.

[Pepperturbo]

Let's put some perspective to this. There’s a point where handicap, tee color or label plays second to actual length of the course and tees. I play in multiple states and to this day have only encountered a few hacks playing from 7000+ tees’; course I typically choose difficult sloped 135+ and in some cases over 139 because I like the challenge. Hacks don’t typically choose long tee’s or choose difficult courses.

I frequent a 75/145 championship tour qualifying track and typically play Blue tee’s which are 73/139 but venture to the back now and again which is over 7000yds. Anyways, I seldom encounter anyone choosing the back tees but do regularly on the Blue tees.

When I walk up after introductions I typically ask if they are familiar with the course; 95% of the time the answer is NO; that’s when I ask what motivated them to pick the blue tees’ answer is the yardage of 6500+. Not once have I heard anyone reference the challenge or difficulty. Fact is most folks don’t understand the rating system, while many don’t even know about its influence until they've played plenty of courses

Their thinking is based on some internal mechanism that says anything over “X” is to long and anything under “X” won’t be challenging enough. I’ll watch and listen closely and note what’s in their bag. Contrary to the implications surrounding profiling people, it has its advantages. Its not below me to choose to announce my index and walk up to the White tee’s 71/131; saying I want to be easy on myself and practice my iron game.

After looking at each other for a few moments, most of the time they follow immediately, some hang on for a few holes but eventually move forward. Of those that have hung back on the Blue tees, most look on every hole and card 90-low 100 scores walking off 18 while saying their a mid-index; yea, right.

Using my own measuring instincts seems +/- 6600yds is when average Joe hacker lets his ego walk him to the tips. We hear the word “tips” or “championship” tees regularly here and elsewhere. What amuses me is even people I know talk about playing the tips, when in fact their really talking about 6000-6200yd tees. Hence my reasoning this subject is really about how long the course is, seldom how difficult it is.

My advice, choose harder and longer courses and you’re less likely to walk on the 1st tee and meet Mr. Hacker. If you want to banter about a low index but want to play mildly easy and moderate length tracks you have pay the consequences with a

This post has been edited by Pepperturbo: Jun 9 2009, 07:58 PM

[noahwein]

Hackers scoring 100 are not having fun on the golf course, or at least not near as much as they would have with some control over their golf ball.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read on this website. I scored a 112 today at the course in 4.5 hours and I had a blast. Deal with it.

[MoreGolfLessWork]

I played Doral (Blue Monster) a couple of years ago with a couple of blokes called Mike...easy to remember ... they played off the front tees, I played off the back, we all had fun and it was challenging. Frankly I don't care which tees you play from as long as you enjoy yourself....as for the time it takes for a round, well course officials are trying to cram on so many people on their courses now that a 5 hour round on a good course is getting to be the norm.

If you don't have the game to play off the back and you want to, go for it....you pay for the round, and generally you pay a lot of money so you should get to play the course how you want....but you must be respectful of others on the golf course (this is my only real gripe on the golf course...people that have no respect for others around them).

[Pepperturbo]

people mistakenly think the "playable" mishits they make are actually solid shots.

When I suggest a player develop and groove his swing to strike solid shots with wedges and short irons ; I mean solid, truly square ball contact. This is much more challenging to do than most amateurs realize. Without a doubt if a player is actually striking solid short irons then he can pick up a fairway wood or driver and get excellent results.

My intention is not to hijack this thread... just to say the bold line is exactly what I think comes from playing game improvement CB's; what people think is happening is NOT.

They owe inherent forgiveness and the numbing enhancements of game improvement CB heads for shots going straight; NOT improved ball striking skills. As for your last line, you're reasoning is flawed. If it weren't flawed those able to strike an 8i well (which I've seen) should be able to strike a 3i just as well, many can't.

As for your earlier comment about people carding 100 not having fun; you're applying how you'd feel shooting 100 NOT how they actually feel which is frustration and challenge wrapped in having fun.

A good friend of mine posts over 100 when he want's to play from the blue tee's... Its not likely he'll ever be any better then he is at the game; but he has fun facing the challenges.

This post has been edited by Pepperturbo: Jun 10 2009, 09:46 AM

[mantan]

Let's put some perspective to this. There’s a point where handicap, tee color or label plays second to actual length of the course and tees. I play in multiple states and to this day have only encountered a few hacks playing from 7000+ tees’; course I typically choose difficult sloped 135+ and in some cases over 139 because I like the challenge. Hacks don’t typically choose long tee’s or choose difficult courses.

I frequent a 75/145 championship tour qualifying track and typically play Blue tee’s which are 73/139 but venture to the back now and again which is over 7000yds. Anyways, I seldom encounter anyone choosing the back tees but do regularly on the Blue tees.

When I walk up after introductions I typically ask if they are familiar with the course; 95% of the time the answer is NO; that’s when I ask what motivated them to pick the blue tees’ answer is the yardage of 6500+. Not once have I heard anyone reference the challenge or difficulty. Fact is most folks don’t understand the rating system, while many don’t even know about its influence until they've played plenty of courses

Their thinking is based on some internal mechanism that says anything over “X” is to long and anything under “X” won’t be challenging enough. I’ll watch and listen closely and note what’s in their bag. Contrary to the implications surrounding profiling people, it has its advantages. Its not below me to choose to announce my index and walk up to the White tee’s 71/131; saying I want to be easy on myself and practice my iron game.

After looking at each other for a few moments, most of the time they follow immediately, some hang on for a few holes but eventually move forward. Of those that have hung back on the Blue tees, most look on every hole and card 90-low 100 scores walking off 18 while saying their a mid-index; yea, right.

Using my own measuring instincts seems +/- 6600yds is when average Joe hacker lets his ego walk him to the tips. We hear the word “tips” or “championship” tees regularly here and elsewhere. What amuses me is even people I know talk about playing the tips, when in fact their really talking about 6000-6200yd tees. Hence my reasoning this subject is really about how long the course is, seldom how difficult it is.

My advice, choose harder and longer courses and you’re less likely to walk on the 1st tee and meet Mr. Hacker. If you want to banter about a low index but want to play mildly easy and moderate length tracks you have pay the consequences with a

'6500 yard guy' is my pet peeve. Scorecard yardage is a HORRIBLE indicator of how a course will play. How could you compare a 340 yard par 4 with a narrow landing area and shallow well protected green to a 420 yard downhill hole with a no trouble?

For most golfers slope is a MUCH better indicator than length (or even rating) of the right tee box. On our annual trip to Myrtle we always argued over which boxes to play. Many of the courses have up to 5 tee boxes with varying colors/names.

The first couple of years we foolishly tried to play to the 6500 yard or even worse (one tee from the tips) rule. The problem was there is a big of difference between a 126 and 136 slope course. Finally we got smart and started for a 'target slope' between 124-129. We found that gave us a more consistent challenge each day. And believe me, it was more fun playing a 6200 yard 126 slope course than trying to play the 6600 yard 136 yard course we used to gravitate to.

I also agree with above that ego comes into play when you have golfers of varying skills. Unfortunately it's more common for a higher handicap player to 'go along' and play more course than they want than for a stronger player to suck it up and play from a shorter tee for the day.

[Pepperturbo]

Thanks for sharing your thoughts. I am glad you and your friends choose tees based on slope, not yardage so much. I wish more golfers would or could realize the benefits of slope ratings, they'd have more fun.

[Blues Golfer]

the illusion is very simple.

Playing from the championship tees when you are overmatched for them, is not at all like playing from those tees if you are a true scratch golfer. Yes both players are putting a tee in the ground at the same place. But the similarity ends when those two players address the ball.

My index is a low five, and I don't kid myself that when I'm hitting a five iron 185 yards and my plus handicap friend is hitting a 7, that we are playing the same game. We aren't, and we both know it.

Nicklaus knew it when he saw Tiger play, and he was man enough to admit it.