Are golf rules always good?, Today at The 3 Irish Open Options

[JustCurious]

Golf rules are always good?

Read what happened to Italian Francesco Molinari at The 3 Irish Open today, after breaking the course record yesterday with an outstanding 63....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/sport/feedarticle/8509203


.....Molinari's marker, Peter Hanson, accidentally transposed the Italian's scores on the 12th and 13th holes.
Molinari had a four-putt double-bogey on the 12th but signed for a par four. He then signed for the double-bogey on the 13th which he had parred.

[jaskanski]

Not the rules fault is it? A lesson learned for Mr. Molinari. I bet he doesn't sign many contract agreements without checking the small print - why make the same mistake on a card?
In short, rules are rules and they're always good.

[arkstorm]

Not the rules fault is it? A lesson learned for Mr. Molinari. I bet he doesn't sign many contract agreements without checking the small print - why make the same mistake on a card?
In short, rules are rules and they're always good.

Rules are rules and they're always good? Rules are changed all the time. I think this rule is shortsighted, particularly in light of the fact that he signed for the correct overall score. It is an arcane rule whose time has gone.

This post has been edited by arkstorm: May 15 2009, 12:03 PM

[dabdias]

One question, what would happen if the two players disagreed on the scores? Is there anyone else keeping score? Can you use TV to untie?

[Matt727]

Happened to me before, sucks... now every time I play a tournament I check hole-by-hole 3 times haha...learned that lesson

[JustCurious]

Yes, you're right, but I was suggesting a different consideration.

In this case the score for the round was the same, simply two holes inverted by the marker, without any advantage for the player.
And he was two off the leader.

Don't you think that's too much to be disqualified for situations like this?

I know that somebody in the past has lost a major for something similar, but wouldn't be more fair to give the player a second chance to correct his mistake, instead of disqualifying him?

[steeler4life]

For professional tournaments there should be a professional person for recording the scores....not a volunteer, but still retain the score bearer.

Where these guys make a living week to week there's no need for having a paycheck taken away for a wrong card (with no ill intent)...not needed in this day and age. It just seems a little too traditional now.

[minitour]

In tournament golf, you don't sign for nor are you responsible to add up an 18 hole score. You sign for the score you made on each of the 18 holes. The committee is responsible for adding the numbers up, not the player. Signing for a 63 doesn't matter at all. He signed for other than what he actually made and was penalized appropriately.

-mini

[larrybud]

IMO, it's an archaic rule for professional golf.

Could you imagine: "The New York Giants have been disqualified from the Superbowl for their winning score of 26 when they forgot about the missed extra point and signed for a 27."

Put it towards other sports and it is silly.

This post has been edited by larrybud: May 15 2009, 01:54 PM

[yoonie]

IMO, it's an archaic rule for professional golf.

Could you imagine: "The New York Giants have been disqualified from the Superbowl for their winning score of 26 when they forgot about the missed extra point and signed for a 27."

Put it towards other sports and it is silly.

On the other hand, can you remember (or even imagine) an occasion when an NFL team fails to tabulate its score correctly? Tom Coughlin not noticing when 2 point go up instead of 3 for a field goal? When the point of the game is scoring and you're not keeping good track of your own, you deserve what you get. I don't see why the PGA doesn't simply have official scorekeepers though, just for simplicity.

[D'KRUSHER]

IMO, it's an archaic rule for professional golf.

Could you imagine: "The New York Giants have been disqualified from the Superbowl for their winning score of 26 when they forgot about the missed extra point and signed for a 27."

Put it towards other sports and it is silly.

On the other hand, can you remember (or even imagine) an occasion when an NFL team fails to tabulate its score correctly? Tom Coughlin not noticing when 2 point go up instead of 3 for a field goal? When the point of the game is scoring and you're not keeping good track of your own, you deserve what you get. I don't see why the PGA doesn't simply have official scorekeepers though, just for simplicity.

====================
Cant screw up Tennis.
Cant Screw up all the other individual sports in Competition.

Gosh, Look at Auto Racing.. and the use of Technology there in saying who has the Pole, who Won..it's now down to 1/100 ( maybe 1/1000 ) of a second..and Tech helps all race long- who came out of pits first etc..

Golf-Purely the Tracking Score, not any other rules..., this Archaic rule should be changed- & that guy Vincenzo whom at the Masters should have won, he should have been given a Green Jacket, IMO.

As discussued before- the hyper TV coverage, any wobble of the ball, rules infraction, all "caught" in todays game..so more penalties for today's players. This change will giv'em a bit breathing room, IMO. Play Ball- Let the Best Player Win !

[yoonie]

Why can't you screw up scoring tennis(because the athlete would notice if the official was mis-scoring the game)? Why not any other competitive individual sports? As a former archer, I can tell you there's at LEAST one sport where it's possible to mess up scoring.

As for auto racing, is there any conceivable way for a racer to keep his own time? Your analogy is terribly...well, unanalagous.

[mat562]

In tournament golf, you don't sign for nor are you responsible to add up an 18 hole score. You sign for the score you made on each of the 18 holes. The committee is responsible for adding the numbers up, not the player. Signing for a 63 doesn't matter at all. He signed for other than what he actually made and was penalized appropriately.

-mini

The textbook answer.

I know this - even as someone who's never played professionally. For a tournament professional to not know it - or to not expend sufficient effort to check that he was signing for the correct set of scores - is simply a goof on the player's part. It's unfortunate, tragic, call it what you like, but any way you distill it, it's his own fault. However much sympathy and outrage you can muster, it's ultimately a very simple rule that's really quite easy to not fall foul of if you simply take the time and effort to properly check a card after the round. I've never signed for an incorrect score in my life, because I've always had it drilled into me that a round of competitive golf isn't over until you've checked your card sufficiently well that it precludes any chance of there being a cock-up; and then made sure you've signed it.

It's an old fashioned rule, certainly. Probably a bit anachronistic. But, it has the advantage of being really quite simple, easy to follow, and totally unambiguous; so it very effectively removes any grey areas and gives every man jack in the field an agreed set of rules to abide by when it comes to marking and checking the scores properly and a standard penalty when they don't.

It's not a rule that needs changing. It's one that needs some attention paid to it.

This post has been edited by mat562: May 15 2009, 02:58 PM

[D'KRUSHER]

Why can't you screw up scoring tennis(because the athlete would notice if the official was mis-scoring the game)? Why not any other competitive individual sports? As a former archer, I can tell you there's at LEAST one sport where it's possible to mess up scoring.

As for auto racing, is there any conceivable way for a racer to keep his own time? Your analogy is terribly...well, unanalagous.

=====
In Tennis.. I have never known the Player to get disqualified for scoring a wrong score.

In Racing, dont you think there was a wrong decisions made back in the day whom was on the Pole, or whom won ? Auto Racing today- unless the stuff malfunctions.. no way to give someone a wrong victory or Pole.
Yup, the driver's not "scoring" but this example shows how in the advance of tech, using the tech. its better for comp, IMO.
Also, I bet that when they started racing...early 1900's- they guy did eyeball themselves.. and decided amongst themselves whom won.
An honest mistake, a scorecard sign in the wrong area, a score marked HIGHER than actual on a hole...all these should be rid'of.

Interestingly, if I remember right - 5 yrs ago- Paddy was winning a Euro event, ahead by 5, on his way to the course record.. and signed a higher than actual score. Paddy was D-Q'd.

[youngwaldo]

Put in a higher score for the hole, the score stands. Put a lower score for the hole , DQ. Rules are there for a reason, I don't think all of them are fair but if you want to play the game play by the rules.

Wk

[SNIPERBBB]

Here is a simple solution..give each player their own scorecard or their caddies so if the scorecard is screwed up its their own fault. If not, they better start keeping track of their scores in their yardage books during their round(or snatch a few scorecards from the pro shop). I know what score I have at the end of the round all the time but I can often forget what happened from one hole to the next..especially after a trainwreck hole.

[ssp]

A bit harsh in my opinion. I would not want to win in this situation. Seems like a technicality and the best player did not win for that tourney (although not done... you get my point).

If I recall ... one of the orginal rules in golf... do what is fair. I don't see a DQ for this type of scorecard mistake as Fair.

Anybody remember the Stadler putting down the towel to keep his pants clean while he kneeled to hit that shot? Building his stance?....please.

[iloverickystevek...]

Rule will change soon. There is too much money at stake nowadays and it constantly drags golf backwards. They should at least allow a grace period where the golfer can rectify a mistake if it is picked up.

This post has been edited by iloverickystevekarl: May 15 2009, 04:24 PM

[mat562]

It's always the player's fault if the scorcard is screwed up. Simple as that.

The fact that someone else marks the card that is ultimately submitted is immaterial. The player themselves keep a tally of their score, which is intended to be checked alongside the other card. The fact that they mark their own scores means that they have their own record that can subsequently be compared with that of their playing partner and scorer. It's a foolproof method that, if carried out correctly, means that there's a quick and convenient way to challenge any discrepancies and ensure that they are corrected before the tournament card is signed and submitted - and only when all parties are happy that it's correct.

Having a card marked by an opponent is a time-honoured way of adding a measure of transparency to the scoring system. It's been the way of things in both amateur and professional golf for decades and, if it's done properly, it quite literally is foolproof. Not all tournaments, even at professional level, have the facility for an on-course marker to be present with every group and there really is no reason to change a system that works because of the odd mistake that, if the players are honest (as Harrington was in the aftermath of his relatively recent mistake), is entirely down to them and inattention or a lack of care on their part.

Checking a card properly takes less than a couple of minutes. It doesn't require any special skills, the ability to be multilingual or anything out of the ordinary with regard to intelligence or mathematical ability. Do it however you like, but ultimately you need to make sure that eighteen numbers in eighteen corresponding boxes are correct. You don't even need to add them up. Nor are you penalised if you do add them up and make a goof. It's not quite something that a monkey could do, but it's close. All those that are clamoring for an alternative; what do you propose? There really isn't a simpler or more transparent method that effectively takes account of the fluid nature of scoring than the one we've already got. It doesn't need to be changed. If there's a mistake, in every case it's because the player has dropped a clanger - not because the system's outdated or impractical.

This post has been edited by mat562: May 15 2009, 04:23 PM

[seena_beena]

i agree with Mat

[HeadonaStick]

If you can't add you should quit and go back to school... if you can add then check your card. How hard is that?

[RichB]

Uhh...

How does one transpose two scores if he is keeping the card as they play?
Shouldn't he be marking the score after immediate completion of the hole?
Not a good practice to mark scores *a coupla holes later*.

[stage1350]

For everyone complaining about the scorecard issue, I don't hear anyone talking about the 15th club.

It's a mistake too, right? Why should he suffer too, right?

It's simple. The rules are in place and you have to follow them, lest you get disqualified. Doesn't matter if it's a "small" rule or a big rule.

[DaveLeeNC]

The PGA Tour really needs to revisit this. Having somebody else keep your score (when the LAST thing on that person's mind is your play) is just asking for trouble.

Assume that Arnie is in the junk on the left next to a clump of something and getting a ruling from an official regarding relief. Jack is in a similar mess on the other side of the course. The ONLY way to implement this 'keep the other guys score' thing is to require Jack to stay with Arnie, participate in the ruling/drop (or whatever), watch the stroke or strokes taken, and then both trudge over to the other side of the course and repeat the whole process.

This doesn't happen and I assume that when Jack (for example) records Arnie's score on this hole he asks Arnie what happened. The alternative would be for Jack has to run down the official that was there and ask him. The process really makes no sense in a PGA Tour event.

dave

[golfismygame]

The Rule on a legal scorecard is very, very simple - especially for the pro's.

18 scores, a signature, and the markers signature.
Nothing more is required for a card to be legal.
No date, no name, no points, no math, no handicap.

They do this for a living....and they still get it wrong!!

[Freddie Klien]

I agree its not difficult to check 18 numbers in the correct sequence, he doesn't even have to add them up. Lets not forget he had a really good score here, how many times do you all check your cards when you put in a good score I must check mine at least ten times.

He deserves all that he gets maybe it will teach him to check his scores properly

[Bomb and Gouge]

A scorecard error like that is a result of laziness! No excuse in this situation- IMO

I've had markers screw things up but we catch it when we go over the scores after the round. It takes about two minutes to go over both cards!

[DaveLeeNC]

Just because a rule is easy to follow doesn't mean that it is a good rule. And this one makes no sense in the context of PGA Tour golf. Some examples.

1) I once followed Retief Goosen in an early round of a TPC event a number of years ago. There was a gal also following him who was built better than your typical Hooters waitress but not wearing as much clothing. He had no idea that she was around - just like he had no idea what the heck his competitors was doing (even though he was responsible for 'scoring' for one of them.

2) Ben Hogan was famous for not having a clue as to what was happening to the others in his group ( in stroke play)

3) When competitor A disappears into the woods you will virtually NEVER see 'his marker' follow him. His marker has no clue as to what is going on.

There are typically hundreds to many thousands of people watching players hit the ball. There is only ONE person with both the incentive to "get it wrong" (although I will admit that this has probably never happened intentionally) and has a role in the competition (like playing golf) which is actually compromised by paying careful attention to the competitor - and that is the person that is responsible for recording the score. Of course the person responsible for recording the score has ZERO accountability for doing it correctly.

Multi-million dollar purses on the line and this is how it is managed. This is not sensible (even if it is theoretically 'easy' to do).

dave

[krustyburger]

Just because a rule is easy to follow doesn't mean that it is a good rule. And this one makes no sense in the context of PGA Tour golf. Some examples.

1) I once followed Retief Goosen in an early round of a TPC event a number of years ago. There was a gal also following him who was built better than your typical Hooters waitress but not wearing as much clothing. He had no idea that she was around - just like he had no idea what the heck his competitors was doing (even though he was responsible for 'scoring' for one of them.

2) Ben Hogan was famous for not having a clue as to what was happening to the others in his group ( in stroke play)

3) When competitor A disappears into the woods you will virtually NEVER see 'his marker' follow him. His marker has no clue as to what is going on.

There are typically hundreds to many thousands of people watching players hit the ball. There is only ONE person with both the incentive to "get it wrong" (although I will admit that this has probably never happened intentionally) and has a role in the competition (like playing golf) which is actually compromised by paying careful attention to the competitor - and that is the person that is responsible for recording the score. Of course the person responsible for recording the score has ZERO accountability for doing it correctly.

Multi-million dollar purses on the line and this is how it is managed. This is not sensible (even if it is theoretically 'easy' to do).

dave

You've given three good examples why every player should take the time to review the scores before they sign for them.

You make it sound like the marker's score is final. It's not, every player keeps their own score, and it isn't too difficult to make sure the marker's scores are the same as your own. In fact it's really quite simple. I'm pretty sure a five-year old could do it.

[EasyDDI]

Hi guys!

I understand this rule can sound harsh especially in Molinari's situation. I can understand that it looks really unfair when it brings you no advantage. However golf is about responsibility. It is one of the pillars supporting the game. This is the only game that I know of where you can call a penalty upon yourself.

If any of you is any familiar with biggest sport on earth: football (soccer for the Americans), a multi-billion dollars sport, they know that in this sport, both players and management have forgone responsibility: they all blame the referee and try to cheat him and his team at every opportunity. You can have the most despicable imaginable behaviour with players and management alike throwing fits at the smallest real or imaginary mistake not going their way done by the referee. They loose, it is the referee's fault with constant criticism of the professionalism of the referees or not so subtle hints that they are corrupted. This is what is happening when responsibility is forgone by the most important actors of the sport, the players themselves. Now imagine a football player admitting to a foul, that'll be the day!

As the Romans would put it: dura lex, sed lex (Molinari should know that better than most :-)). It the end, rules are supporting the integrity of the game.

Cheers,
Easy

[DaveLeeNC]

Just because a rule is easy to follow doesn't mean that it is a good rule. And this one makes no sense in the context of PGA Tour golf. Some examples.

1) I once followed Retief Goosen in an early round of a TPC event a number of years ago. There was a gal also following him who was built better than your typical Hooters waitress but not wearing as much clothing. He had no idea that she was around - just like he had no idea what the heck his competitors was doing (even though he was responsible for 'scoring' for one of them.

2) Ben Hogan was famous for not having a clue as to what was happening to the others in his group ( in stroke play)

3) When competitor A disappears into the woods you will virtually NEVER see 'his marker' follow him. His marker has no clue as to what is going on.

There are typically hundreds to many thousands of people watching players hit the ball. There is only ONE person with both the incentive to "get it wrong" (although I will admit that this has probably never happened intentionally) and has a role in the competition (like playing golf) which is actually compromised by paying careful attention to the competitor - and that is the person that is responsible for recording the score. Of course the person responsible for recording the score has ZERO accountability for doing it correctly.

Multi-million dollar purses on the line and this is how it is managed. This is not sensible (even if it is theoretically 'easy' to do).

dave

You've given three good examples why every player should take the time to review the scores before they sign for them.

You make it sound like the marker's score is final. It's not, every player keeps their own score, and it isn't too difficult to make sure the marker's scores are the same as your own. In fact it's really quite simple. I'm pretty sure a five-year old could do it.

No - I have given "three good examples" as to why this is an inefficient way to score a PGA Tour event. The marker is clearly not useful to the process of generating accurate scores (assuming that the goal of the process is to generate the most accurate scores possible).

You could define any number of rules/procedures that aren't helpful to the process of generating accurate scores but are easy to follow. That doesn't make them good rules.

dave

[mat562]

What do you propose as an alternative to the current status quo Dave?

[DaveLeeNC]

What do you propose as an alternative to the current status quo Dave?

Either a scorer per player or group or just drop the marker concept (assuming that it doesn't cause some insurmountale issue with the ROG). I am not aware of a single case where 'the marker' brought value to the table (at least since my return to the game in 2002). In every case that I am aware of 'the marker' was the source of the error rather than being helpful in correcting errors. But maybe there is something there that I am not aware of.

But from my perspective all 'the marker' does is become a source of error. I just see no value (other than tradition and/or possible issues with the ROG).

If you were to chose 'the scorer' approach you end up exactly where we are now EXCEPT that the scorer would have some accountability and would actually be tasked to do the scoring job (as opposed to 'the marker' whose primary task is to play competitive golf).

dave

This post has been edited by DaveLeeNC: May 18 2009, 05:28 PM

[mat562]

Interesting. But my take is the same as it is in my above posts.

Whilst a marker may well make a mistake, it's only a mistake until such time as the player sees it and corrects it. Once a player says 'I made a 4 on 14; not a 3' and corrects the score in the process of checking the card, the mistake ceases to exist. Like the Norwegian Blue, it's an ex-problem.

As for an independent marker, it's certainly an idea, but it ultimately boils down to exactly what we've already got: someone else marking a player's card. There is still a requirement that a player checks (or at least signs for) the score under the rules of the game - so again, it achieves nothing except giving someone else a job to do that's already being done perfectly well by someone else.

The points about a player/marker not necessarily taking much notice are valid, and it's certainly true that a marker can't oversee everything that a fellow competitor does. That said, there's no way that a marker can do that either. One marker with each group can't keep a close eye on three different players who will, on occasion, hit their shots to widely different points on the golf course. So, ultimately, there will still be occasions where he or she will have to ask the age old question 'what did you get there?' - exactly as is the case with the current system where a playing partner marks the card. Marking a card doesn't require that the marker is able to swear on pain of death that the scores are correct. It will always be a combination of what they've seen with their own eyes and what they've been told by a playing partner, who is entrusted to give a true account of how many strokes they took on a particular hole. The player remains responsible for their score and, in the case of them making a mistake, they're liable. In the case of the marker making a mistake, the player is responsible for ensuring that the mistake is identified and remedied. Tee score that is submitted is the ultimate responsibilty of the player. Incredibly simple and unambiguous - and not made any simpler or more unambiguous by having a third party scribbling the scores down instead of a fellow competitor.

However you distill it, there will always be a requirement for a player to check and sign his card before submitting it. It's unavoidable since it's an integral part of tournament golf; since a player is responsible for ensuring that a properly formatted and true record of their score on the day is submitted to the tournament committee in the case of competitive golf. Whoever fills it out, it's always the case that the player has to, at some point, agree that the score is correct. If he chooses not to check it, or not to do it properly, or he forgets to sign the card when he's fully aware that he needs to do so, then that is how mistakes like these ones happen. Not because his marker's been remiss in his duties or that anyone's had an unreasonable burden placed upon them by being required to scribble a few numbers on a bit of paper. Because a player hasn't completed a rudimentary set of actions, post-round, that he's fully aware that he needs to do before calling it a day, and thus falls foul of a very simple rule, it really isn't cause to start ripping things up and starting again.

Because there are such large sums of money involved, you would imagine that it would be ample encouragement, as if any were needed, for the players to make sure that they accomplish the very simple set of actions that are required of them after the round. The fact that very occasionally some of them don't isn't an indication that the system is unworkable or anachronistic. It isn't a rallying cry for modernisation or some sort of scoring-system revolt. It's an indication that the player concerned has dropped a clanger and needs to do better next time - after admitting that he's failed to abide by a very simple rule that he should know inside-out either though clumsiness, inattention or throwing a tantrum after playing poorly.

The fact that none of the major professional tours have seen fit to even seriously debate the issue of possibly changing the scoring procedure is perhaps the best indication of all that it's viewed as an unnecessary solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

[DaveLeeNC]

Interesting. But my take is the same as it is in my above posts.


SNIP

The fact that none of the major professional tours have seen fit to even seriously debate the issue of possibly changing the scoring procedure is perhaps the best indication of all that it's viewed as an unnecessary solution to a problem that doesn't exist.

While I still think that it is odd that the current system basically starts with about the most error that you can possibly start with (unless you start with random numbers in the card)...

THAT is a very valid obseration.

dave

ps. OTOH, I would observe that the fact that the players don't think that trying to keep someone else's score is a burden indicates that they don't take that job seriously. Regardless, the observation is still valid (IMHO).

[Rockfish]

In tournament golf, you don't sign for nor are you responsible to add up an 18 hole score. You sign for the score you made on each of the 18 holes. The committee is responsible for adding the numbers up, not the player. Signing for a 63 doesn't matter at all. He signed for other than what he actually made and was penalized appropriately.

-mini

The textbook answer.

I know this - even as someone who's never played professionally. For a tournament professional to not know it - or to not expend sufficient effort to check that he was signing for the correct set of scores - is simply a goof on the player's part. It's unfortunate, tragic, call it what you like, but any way you distill it, it's his own fault. However much sympathy and outrage you can muster, it's ultimately a very simple rule that's really quite easy to not fall foul of if you simply take the time and effort to properly check a card after the round. I've never signed for an incorrect score in my life, because I've always had it drilled into me that a round of competitive golf isn't over until you've checked your card sufficiently well that it precludes any chance of there being a cock-up; and then made sure you've signed it.

It's an old fashioned rule, certainly. Probably a bit anachronistic. But, it has the advantage of being really quite simple, easy to follow, and totally unambiguous; so it very effectively removes any grey areas and gives every man jack in the field an agreed set of rules to abide by when it comes to marking and checking the scores properly and a standard penalty when they don't.

It's not a rule that needs changing. It's one that needs some attention paid to it.

archaic, outdated,,,,,,, not anachronistic.

[mat562]

Pasted from a popular online dictionary:

Anachronism Adjective anachronistic (comparative more anachronistic, superlative most anachronistic)

Positive
anachronistic
Comparative
more anachronistic
Superlative
most anachronistic


Erroneous in date; containing an anachronism; in a wrong time.
If you know where to look in the movie, you can spot an anachronistic wrist watch on one of the Roman soldiers.
(of a person) having an opinion of the past; preferring things or values of the past; behind the times; over-conservative.

Synonyms outdated, archaic

Given the fact that the status quo these days is for everything under the sun to be computerised, the fact that the scoring system in golf is still reliant upon a man, a bit of paper and a pencil could very well be described as being in a wrong time.

Also, listed as synonyms (a word or phrase with a meaning that is the same as, or very similar to, another word or phrase) are both archaic and outdated - which suggests that those aren't actually valid corrections for a supposedly misused word or phrase in the first instance.

[xxio]

The scorecard is with a marker/fellow playing competitor already. The reason for that is to discourage cheating.

It won't matter if is with a 3rd party/a market because the player still has to check/verify and sign after the round. That is where the responsibility is. If that 3rd party makes a mistake the fault will be on him instead and not on the player. Just imagine the ramifications/complications on that.

If the last person checking the card cannot be bothered to check it correctly then he should take up tennis

[billsboy]

The argument that the rules will always have the player check and be responsible for their own card regardless of which other party marks it, whether it be a fellow competitor or a tournament official, seems a poor one to me. It is inherent in the argument for an official scorer that score should be kept by an impartial tournament official (as in every other major sport) as part of a rules change that would remove any such responsibility from the player entirely. It is not about suggesting an official scorer replaces a fellow competitor in the role of keeping a card that the player still has to sign for - the idea is to change the rules so as to remove any such requirement from the player entirely, in favour of an impartial score sheet, not to change who plays the role within the current rules. And the included argument for the player's responsibility as it now stands, that we would insult the integrity and the "I can call a penalty on myself" spirit of golf seems flawed too. The rules as currently written already assume that a player would cheat if given an opportunity. Otherwise, a player would keep his own card with no oversight at all, and his submitted score would be treated as Gospel. But that is not how it's done. Furthermore, the player can still call a penalty on himself. It will just be marked as a stroke by an appointed official.

I also find the argument that one scorer could not keep any better watch on three golfers at once than could a fellow competitor who might be 100 yards away to be weak, at least logically. Simply provide one scorer per golfer. The question, "What did you shoot there?", would be as foreign to an official golf scorer as would be, "Did that puck go in?", asked of a player by an NHL referee. Now finding that many trained, accountable scoring officials per tournament would be impractical to say the least, even for the PGA, let alone your club championship. This difficulty, and not any concerns about the game's history or integrity or the rule's fairness, is, I suspect, a major reason why no tour has ever advocated a change. Plus, the system does usually work as is. But there are cases where touring pros are burned by this rule (and yes, their lack of the attention that the rules do currently demand) at least several times per season. It seems outdated and a bit harsh to expect a player who has spent a mentally exhausting 5 or 6 hours concentrating exclusively on his swing and course management and not choking with a Major championship and millions of dollars on the line to then instantly switch gears to checking with absolute focus the numbers that another equally involved player wrote down for him.

Other arguments aside, it seems to me, and anyone with greater insight into the technicalities of this please correct me if I'm wrong, that there must already BE an official score card kept for each player at a pro event. After all, how can one be DQ'd for signing an incorrect card if there is no official one with which to compare the player's submitted card? Other than the situations where a player later realizes he signed an incorrect score and DQ's himself, how do we know the player's card is incorrect? Please don't tell me that the player's card is compared to the TV coverage leaderboard. That seems truly ridiculous. What if the fellow competitor and the player disagree on what was scored versus what was marked? Who, if not an official, resolves that impasse? So I have to assume there is already an official scoring system, at least a de facto one, and having players sign and submit a card that must match is just an anachronism, sometimes a costly one.

[stage1350]

The only thing a "scorer" will do is give the player another excuse when he signs an incorrect scorecard. The player will still have to verify his score hole for hole and this just adds one more potential source for an error.

With the high dollar purses on the line, I think verifying your score after each hole is a small price to pay for a large check at the end of the week.