Handicap Maximum Strokes?, Opinions? Do you or dont you? Options

[Pure745]

I'm not sure if this is a uniform rule, but the SCGA has "handicap maximums" or a max score you can take. I guess this is to prevent sand bagging, but it also seems to create vanity handicaps.

I've got two playing partners, one's a 7 another's about a 9.. they both use their "max" quite frequently. To the point where sometimes, it's like.. c'mon!!!!

I'll admit that I also do this when I play with them, just because they're doing it too. I don't really use my "max" that much at all really, but I have to be fair and say that I have done it too.

I just see this as a pattern, my one friend who is a 7 has the same "max" as me (2.4 index) so for example.. on a par 3.. I can hit it in regulation and 3 putt, for bogey.. he can hit his tee shot in the water, then drop hit another into the water.. and just take his "max" which is 5.. so basically i only gained 1 stroke when he would have gotten about a 7 or more. Not saying this happens all the time, but it does happen.

Any handicap that's 0-10 has a max of +2 on any hole.. I'm beginning to think that taking max's is just the biggest cop out and keeps players from obtaining their true index and end up with more vanity handicaps.

Just curious to see if anyone else has encountered this.. and what your opinions are.

[skinny99]

Two things,First using your ESC max in a round is not the correct way of playing,you need to finish every stroke and that is your score!
Second I don't even do it before I post my score,what I shoot is what I shoot I want,my handicap based of off that. I am a higher handicapper so having a quad is indicative of my game sometimes unfortunately. IMO Todd

[fua1]

Not sure, but i think the ESC is to be done after your round. If you take a 12 on a par 3 it is still a 12 until you enter your score for your handicap. It isn't there to put it in your pocket after so many strokes.

[kevcarter]

Two things,First using your ESC max in a round is not the correct way of playing,you need to finish every stroke and that is your score!
Second I don't even do it before I post my score,what I shoot is what I shoot I want,my handicap based of off that. I am a higher handicapper so having a quad is indicative of my game sometimes unfortunately. IMO Todd

Not sure, but i think the ESC is to be done after your round. If you take a 12 on a par 3 it is still a 12 until you enter your score for your handicap. It isn't there to put it in your pocket after so many strokes.

fua1,

Exactly correct, it is computed AFTER the round. It is NOT used for actual score when competing against someone else.

skinny99,

You MUST use ESC or your handicap is not valid. Willingly not using ESC inflates your handicap, and any association would consider someone a snd bagger for not turning in properly adjusted scores.

Kevin

4-3. Equitable Stroke Control

All scores for handicap purposes, including tournament scores, are subject to the application of Equitable Stroke Control (ESC). This mandatory procedure reduces high hole scores for handicap purposes in order to make handicaps more representative of a player's potential ability.

A handicap determined from scores to which ESC has not been applied may not be termed a Handicap Index.

[Pinehurst1999]

Second I don't even do it before I post my score,what I shoot is what I shoot I want,my handicap based of off that. I am a higher handicapper so having a quad is indicative of my game sometimes unfortunately. IMO Todd

Based on what you are doing...you are not properly recording your handicap according the the USGA system. There is a black and white rule here in the ESC, and it basically takes "outliers" or "silly flukes" into account. I am a 13 right now, so a 7 is my max, and I have to post my scores that way with the expection of tournaments.

Otherwise, your handicap will be/could be much higher then everyone else following the ESC rules, giving you an advantage in the handicap/flighting of tournaments. Lets just say that you are a 13 like me, but you do not use ESC as required by the rules of golf...you would actually be a better player then me, so you have a clear advantage in tournaments.

If you do not play in any tournaments at all, ever...then do whatever you want, but if you are ever in tournaments you are cheating your other competitors.

[CPHoya]

This is correct. If you're playing him and he puts up an 8 while you bogey you just picked up 4 strokes. As far as his official handicap s concerned, though, he's supposed to just enter his scores and the computer will calculate it appropriately.

If he's as bad as you indicate, though, he should be trending away from the lower handicap since he takes his max quite frequently. . . you can't hang onto a 9 handicap if you're posting 88s all the time.

[Pure745]

So basically.. keep the "non-maxed" score.. and enter it as such.. and the computer will do it?

The reason for the topic is as stated, my playing partners seem to use the "max" a lot, and definitely more than I do.. I might have to use a "max" maybe once every 3 rounds.

[Pinehurst1999]

So basically.. keep the "non-maxed" score.. and enter it as such.. and the computer will do it?

The reason for the topic is as stated, my playing partners seem to use the "max" a lot, and definitely more than I do.. I might have to use a "max" maybe once every 3 rounds.

I do not know what computer system you guys are using, but the one at my club will NOT automatically correct it. I also use ESC about once every 2-3 rounds, but I have to make the changes myself and enter it into the system since neither of the 2 that I use correct it automatically. How can a system automatically correct it unless you enter the score of every hole for the round?

[iteachgolf]

when playing against each other the max doesn't matter. It is only used when they post their round for handicap purposes. For $5 Nassau there is no max and you don't just pick up.

[CPHoya]

Oh I'm used to the system where you enter hole scores. If your system doesn't do that you need to keep your actual score, but before entering your total for the day for handicap purposes apply ESC and enter THAT total.

What I said about hsi handicap increasing as time goes on holds true, though.

iteach is right - you never just pick up unless you're willing to take some sort of horrible score and it's so bad no competitor even cares - like a 9.

[skinny99]

Two things,First using your ESC max in a round is not the correct way of playing,you need to finish every stroke and that is your score!
Second I don't even do it before I post my score,what I shoot is what I shoot I want,my handicap based of off that. I am a higher handicapper so having a quad is indicative of my game sometimes unfortunately. IMO Todd

Not sure, but i think the ESC is to be done after your round. If you take a 12 on a par 3 it is still a 12 until you enter your score for your handicap. It isn't there to put it in your pocket after so many strokes.

fua1,

Exactly correct, it is computed AFTER the round. It is NOT used for actual score when competing against someone else.

skinny99,

You MUST use ESC or your handicap is not valid. Willingly not using ESC inflates your handicap, and any association would consider someone a snd bagger for not turning in properly adjusted scores.

Kevin

4-3. Equitable Stroke Control

All scores for handicap purposes, including tournament scores, are subject to the application of Equitable Stroke Control (ESC). This mandatory procedure reduces high hole scores for handicap purposes in order to make handicaps more representative of a player's potential ability.

A handicap determined from scores to which ESC has not been applied may not be termed a Handicap Index.

Second I don't even do it before I post my score,what I shoot is what I shoot I want,my handicap based of off that. I am a higher handicapper so having a quad is indicative of my game sometimes unfortunately. IMO Todd

Based on what you are doing...you are not properly recording your handicap according the the USGA system. There is a black and white rule here in the ESC, and it basically takes "outliers" or "silly flukes" into account. I am a 13 right now, so a 7 is my max, and I have to post my scores that way with the expection of tournaments.

Otherwise, your handicap will be/could be much higher then everyone else following the ESC rules, giving you an advantage in the handicap/flighting of tournaments. Lets just say that you are a 13 like me, but you do not use ESC as required by the rules of golf...you would actually be a better player then me, so you have a clear advantage in tournaments.

If you do not play in any tournaments at all, ever...then do whatever you want, but if you are ever in tournaments you are cheating your other competitors.

I only keep a handicap to track my progress. I am not a member of a club and have never competed where handicap was figured. If I was to ever get an official handicap I would definetly do it correctly. In my range it may only be one stroke every three rounds or so that it would an issue. Thanks for the comments though. Todd

[One_Putt_Blunder]

Not a huge fan of the ESC at all.
Just like Kev said, I always put the actual score on the scorecard and adjust the ESC post round when I post my score for handicap purposes.
Thankfully I manage to keep the triples off the scorecard for the most part but they do sneek in there every now and then. Usually me trying to get cute with a shot and failing miserably.

[Pure745]

LOL +1 on that One Putt Blunder! But that's usually that absolute worst for me.. and rarely happens..

I just feel like it's not really fair to a player who rarely uses it when other use it multiple times a round.. but that's just me.. I just wanted to know the official rule.. i never knew it existed till last year..

I used to play competitively so didnt need an index but now am a member at a club where you're required to have one to play in their tourneys..

[mcfet]

That's correct, you need to play out the hole and record your acutal score in your match then adjust your score based on your ESC before you enter your score. Its up to you to do it, most systems won't adjust. At least I know that GHIN doesn't. I usually just write in my esc on the hole in the box below so I don't forget to adjust.
If your playing for cash you need to tell your friends to pay up...