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Opinion & Analysis

Forget method teaching: Swing your swing

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Over the course of the 50 years, 30 of which I’ve spent teaching golf, I have seen many methods come and go.

From “Square to Square” to “Stack and Tilt,” from Alex Morrison’s left-handed game to Tommy Armour’s right-handed, many people have advocated different ways of swinging the golf club.

I’m here to tell you this: If you follow or teach a method, you are doing a disservice to your game or to your students. As proof of this, I offer the World Golf Hall of Fame. Look at the swings of the great players enshrined there. I’m willing to bet none of them are the same. The ONLY thing they have in common is IMPACT — good, solid contact of golf ball and club.

Here’s a few examples:

  • Should you stay centered over the golf ball with more weight remaining on the left side?

Curtis Strange, Walter Hagen, Hal Sutton and a slew of other great players don’t think so.

  • Should the right elbow be pointed down or close to the right side in the backswing?

Jack Nicklaus and Miller Barber are just two examples of great players who never got anywhere near that position.

  • Set up square to the target?

Paleeeese. Lee “Buck” Trevino and Fred Couples are 15 handicaps if we aspire to that “fundamental.”

  • Left arm extended into impact?

Lee Westwood and Calvin Peete have made a nice living with a bent left arm into impact. Ed Furgol, 1954 U.S. Open Champion, had a permanently bent left arm and won the national Open.

  • Neutral grip?

Don’t even go down that road.

  • Turn you hips through the ball?

An entire generation known as the “Reverse C Gang” played pretty well with a lot of “slide” of the lower body, with added axis tilt into the golf ball.

I could go on and on, but you get the point. And this is not just at the Tour level. I have played in state opens and regional events with guys who had the funkiest moves you could imagine and who could break par regularly. And they had much more than a good short game.

John Jacobs said it best:

“The purpose of the golf swing is to apply the club correctly to the ball; the method employed is of no consequence as long as it can be repeated.”

I had four players in my school this weekend and gave every one a different type of lesson. The reason? One was ahead of the ball and over it, one was swayed way off the ball and under it and another was up and over with a super early release. The other was what I call “rocked flat, with a very shallow angle into impact.”

They all came to school with one purpose: to hit the ball better —  not to get “prettier” or “stacked” or “lagged” or anything other than BETTER. Golfers have to square the face, get the attack angle right and get the golf club travelling in the direction of the target. Do those three things and you have a good swing. Period.

Can you get to good impact from your right side? Yes. Can you get to good impact from your left side? Yes. Can you get to good impact from 5 degrees inside out? Yes. Can you get to good impact from 7 degrees down? You bet your clubs you can.

But you need COMPATIBLE variations in your swing to get there.

  • Seven degrees down needs some serious left aim or swing to COMPLEMENT that much down.
  • High hands and a vertical backswing need some lateral hip motion to “drop the club in the slot” BEFORE they turn through the ball.
  •  Low hands, flat takeaway need an early and agressive turn- NOT slide” to deliver the club.

Do the math, pay attention to the impact and understand what YOU have to do get there. Method?  If I taught every student the same thing, first I’d be bored out of my mind, and second, I would not have lasted 30 years in this craft. Every hour I get a different puzzle to solve. That’s what keep it alive and fun for me.

I have darn near every instruction book and video that was ever written or produced. And at night I sit in front of the computer and watch swings of my students and of the great players too. It does not take great insight to realize that there an infinite variety of way to swing and play.

One student left this weekend trying to stay as centered and on the ball as possible in his backswing; another left trying to get as far to his right side as he can. The goal of both is the same, but the pattern and swing thoughts to get there were as different as night and day.

How do I know this style works? I correct swings. Come see me for an hour. If you’re not hitting the ball better when you leave, the lesson is completely FREE. And I won’t give you a whole new swing to get there either.

“Swing YOUR swing,” as Mr. Palmer says.

 

As always, feel free to send a swing video to my Facebook page and I will do my best to give you my feedback.

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Dennis Clark is a PGA Master Professional. Clark has taught the game of golf for more than 30 years to golfers all across the country, and is recognized as one of the leading teachers in the country by all the major golf publications. He is also is a seven-time PGA award winner who has earned the following distinctions: -- Teacher of the Year, Philadelphia Section PGA -- Teacher of the Year, Golfers Journal -- Top Teacher in Pennsylvania, Golf Magazine -- Top Teacher in Mid Atlantic Region, Golf Digest -- Earned PGA Advanced Specialty certification in Teaching/Coaching Golf -- Achieved Master Professional Status (held by less than 2 percent of PGA members) -- PGA Merchandiser of the Year, Tri State Section PGA -- Golf Professional of the Year, Tri State Section PGA -- Presidents Plaque Award for Promotion and Growth of the Game of Golf -- Junior Golf Leader, Tri State section PGA -- Served on Tri State PGA Board of Directors. Clark is also former Director of Golf and Instruction at Nemacolin Woodlands Resort. He now directs his own school, The Dennis Clark Golf Academy at the JW Marriott Marco Island in Naples, Fla.. He can be reached at dennisclarkgolf@gmail.com

29 Comments

29 Comments

  1. reggie jaggers

    Aug 26, 2013 at 3:37 pm

    I am so glad to see someone, a teacher finally come forward and set all of this “all of these parts of the swing must be so and so, you need to have so much weight on this foot, that foot etc. etc. ” There isn’t any wonder that students have so much trouble taking away anything productive after a lesson. I’ve always thought use what suits you the best and don’t worry about what all the books say. They said Jack Nicklaus would never be a good PGA player (paraphrasing here) because his swing was too upright. Well I think Jacks record speaks for itself. I am a self taught golfer and am now 61 years old, soon to be 62 (Sept. 3) my best round at my home course was 64 and this was one year after taking up the game, but I was obsessed with it so I practiced daily. I can still shoot under par and hover around par on my bad days and I’ve never had any instruction. Thank you very much for your post, I wish more instructors would come clean and “fess up” as well. We have all become too reliant on today’s golf equipment ie: made to think we can buy a better game, practice is the only thing. Sorry straying a bit here, but again a great post and a much needed one.

  2. Dennis Clark

    May 19, 2013 at 2:56 pm

    Well first thought is distance from the ball. Have you tried a little closer? Bill Haas does do that with an OUT hand path and you can bet he aint hooking off the toe. Its one of those compatible variations that you need to make,

    • Dennis Clark

      May 19, 2013 at 7:07 pm

      Chris send me a video; I’ll take a look

  3. Dennis Clark

    May 17, 2013 at 10:10 pm

    whats the problem? swing problem i mean?

    • chris

      May 18, 2013 at 6:03 am

      Dennis,

      I am around a scratch golfer yet I tend to hit the ball off the toe which causes me to hook/pull hook.. Video shows I move away from the ball on the downswing—can’t fix it to save my life. I have found pros like Bill Haas have a similar move.

  4. Chris

    May 16, 2013 at 11:17 pm

    Best article I have read on the swing in a long long time. But Dennis, how do I improve and make my impact consistently pure? I’m working my tail off but at a loss here…

    Well done!

  5. Dennis Clark

    May 16, 2013 at 8:19 pm

    Exactly Mike. State Open or State Am is perfect example. A lot of zero handicaps who look like like they’re digging graves.

  6. Steve Connolly

    May 8, 2013 at 7:00 pm

    Dennis, wouldn’t you say that anyone who is coming for a lesson needs to get a more repeatable swing?

    I have been taught that up a more “correct” swing is more repeatable, and generates more speed with less effort than a swing filled with compensations. After all, not all of us can practice and play as much as the great players you mentioned.

    Doesn’t a more “correct” swing produce fewer injuries as well?

    Thank you!

    • Dennis Clark

      May 9, 2013 at 3:32 pm

      Steve: I am willing to bet your swing is as repeatable as a tour pro other than the face at impact. Please send me a video. If you have a V-1 app on your phone, I’d like to see it. Thx, DC

    • Mike Divot

      May 15, 2013 at 9:23 pm

      How many times have you seen a guy with a “correct” swing who looks really controlled and unnatural?

      Or he has a beautiful swing and hits his driver 200?

      And how many times have you played with a guy who hits it like a horse on roller skates, but somehow beats the pants off you?

  7. Steve Pratt

    May 4, 2013 at 8:53 pm

    Bravo Dennis! As a teacher, I can imagine a number of PGA Tour pros coming to me for advice – say Kevin Stadler, Jim Furyk, et. al. And I really wouldn’t have any swing advice.

    I think my first question would be – so how’s your putting?

    Yes Clampett advocates a forward leaning shaft of the driver at impact.

    • Dennis Clark

      May 4, 2013 at 10:35 pm

      Yes sireee…Played with Eamonn Darcy many many years ago. If you’re not familiar, google him. I couldnt believe my eyes. But he never missed a shot in a 66 round. Alan Doyle same thing thing; he could swing in a closet. Pured it all day long!

  8. Park

    May 4, 2013 at 8:12 pm

    Excellent, thanks

    • yo!

      May 6, 2013 at 2:59 pm

      Yes, I remember that from the book. He says that slow motion video shows that most pros hit the driver with a slightly descending blow. But I’m not sure he is advocating that. Also, I not sure that TGM is actually a method as opposed to a description of a golf swing. And I’ve seen TGM instructors disagree with each other because each person reads the book slightly differently or they incorporate their own bias into it.

  9. yo!

    May 4, 2013 at 11:10 am

    bobby clampett the impact zone is an excellent book on this topic. he describes the one fundamental that all good golfers have in common

    • Dennis Clark

      May 4, 2013 at 2:19 pm

      The ony problem with the TGM driven “Impact Zone” is that he suggests hitting DOWN on your driver. Trackman proves that is not optimal…

      • yo!

        May 6, 2013 at 3:00 pm

        Yes, I remember that from the book. He says that slow motion video shows that most pros hit the driver with a slightly descending blow. But I’m not sure he is advocating that. Also, I not sure that TGM is actually a method as opposed to a description of a golf swing. And I’ve seen TGM instructors disagree with each other because each person reads the book slightly differently or they incorporate their own bias into it.

        • Dennis Clark

          May 6, 2013 at 8:44 pm

          TGM science claims that the club loses speed as soon as it begins to ascend. That low point is the highest speed of the club. Radar disagrees. It’s true that MOST Tour pros hit a bit down on the driver. When you’re in the 115 MPH zone, you don’t need more speed, you’re looking for control and some of them feel 1 degree down or so gives them that. For 99.9% of golfers, this is terrible advice!

  10. ulejas

    May 4, 2013 at 9:14 am

    There are a few past golf teachers that could benefit from this article. We don’t all have to be cloned.

  11. Speedster

    May 3, 2013 at 1:02 pm

    totally agree except for the grip issue. neutral is all relative to where you strike the ball(example, alot of people will grip it address neutral but regrip as they hit the ball, not ideal, but it happens). reality is such, we are all humans, and therefore we should generally hold the club with our left hand relatively the same, assuming you don’t have any physical impediments. the left hand grip IMO is probably the only thing that should be “standardized”

  12. Nathan

    May 3, 2013 at 10:43 am

    I agree 100% with the article. I am one of those with a very unorthodox swing. Let say I use to take the club way outside, way over parallel, and then would drop my shoulders/hands way inside. The only way I hit the ball is quick hands, pop up at impact, and push the ball 30 yards right of my aim. The reason I changed/still changing is too get better. My thing was always consistancy. If timing was off my swing was gone. If I was on, I could play with anyone. That ultimately made me want to change my swing.

  13. David

    May 3, 2013 at 10:09 am

    Could not agree more. Listening to people slip into hyperbole when arguing their theories of the *only* way to swing is worse than listening to idiots go on about their political party of choice.

    That John Jacobs quote is important to everyone who loves the game.

  14. Steve

    May 3, 2013 at 7:28 am

    GREAT article!!! One of the best I’ve ever read here — this one actually talks about ‘real’ golf instead! We all have our idiosynchratic elements, and boy I’ve seen a slew of ’em, but they often result in pure, accurate, and repeatable shots. Great work, keep up this sort of writing!

  15. MJ.

    May 3, 2013 at 5:04 am

    The fact that writer thinks all ‘method teachers’ teach the same day in day out, means he has stopped learning an investigating at some point. Which is sad, because according to this article he seems to be a fantastic teacher ….

    Undoubtedly writer follows a certain set of rules to help his students, whether conscious or not. That makes him as much a method teacher as any other teacher.

    • naflack

      May 8, 2013 at 12:03 pm

      Interesting logic…

    • Dennis Clark

      May 19, 2013 at 3:04 pm

      writer follows a set of rules that are FUNCTIONAL, not a set that are in someone’s book. COMPATIBLE variations is what this writer teaches. You?

  16. Square

    May 3, 2013 at 4:57 am

    John Jacobs is the best; this article was worth the read.

  17. Adrian

    May 3, 2013 at 2:35 am

    Awesome write up and very very true.

  18. GSark

    May 2, 2013 at 5:06 pm

    Bravo! I am one of those guys who is a bit unorthodox but still manages to score. I’m a self taught once a week and carry a GHIN of 4.9. I take my driver back flat, come a little over the top and hit a fade down the middle. I take my short irons straight up, lay them off at the top, drop’em inside and hit a big draw. It’s what feels good, it’s what I do, and I can repeat it. It’s how I do it. Fundamentals are good, and if your mis-hitting it fundamentals can help put you on the ball,but fundamentals aren’t absolute and they sure as heck ain’t the same for everybody. When I built my swing I read alot and got really confused,really,really confused. Then the clouds parted and I realized… You wanna score, make putts. Get the ball up and down. Chip it when you can, pitch it if you can’t chip it. Swing only as hard as you are able to hit the ball flush. If this means pitch it, then pitch it,even with your driver. I won’t call it fundamental, what I will say is putting the club squarely on the back of the ball and putting the ball in the hole is REALLY all that matters.
    Swing your swing indeed sir, Swing your swing indeed.

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An early look at the potential U.S. Ryder Cup Team

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With the Masters and the Players Championship complete, I wanted to examine the statistics of the current leaders in Ryder Cup Points for the U.S. Team. Over the history of the Ryder Cup, the U.S. Team has relied on pairings that were friends and practice-round companions instead of pairing players that were more compatible from a statistical standpoint. This has led to disappointing performances from the U.S. Team and top players such as Jim Furyk performing poorly at the Ryder Cup, as he is ill-suited for the Fourball format.

After a disastrous 2014 Ryder Cup where the U.S. Team lost by a score of 16.5-11.5, the U.S. decided to use a more statistical approach to Ryder Cup play. According to my calculations, the 2016 U.S. Team’s pairings were the closest to optimal that the U.S. Team has compiled in the last seven Ryder Cups. And not surprisingly, the U.S. Team won 17-11 over the Europeans.

Since there are several months to go before the Ryder Cup, I won’t get too much into potential pairings in this article. Instead, I will focus more on the current games of top-12 players in U.S. Ryder Cup Points Standings and how that translates to Ryder Cup performance.

About the Ryder Cup Format

In the Ryder Cup, there is the Foursome format (alternate shot) and the Fourball format (best score). There are distinctly different metrics in the game that correlate to quality performers in each format.

In the Foursome format, short game around the green performance is usually critical. In a typical stroke play event such as The Players Championship, short game around the green performance usually has a much smaller impact on player’s performance. But in a match play, alternate-shot format the opposite has been true. My conclusion is that with the alternate-shot format, more greens in regulation are likely to be missed. The team that can save par and extend holes is usually likely to come out on top. The European team has mostly dominated the U.S. team over the past 20 years in the Foursome format, and the European teams typically are stronger with their short game around the green.

Other factors involved with Foursome play are Red Zone Performance (shots from 175-225 yards) and being able to pair the right players together based on how they each play off the tee and with their approach shots from the rough. For example, a pairing of Phil Mickelson (who misses a lot of fairways) and Zach Johnson (who is not very good from the rough) would likely be a poor pairing.

In the Fourball format (lowest score), the best performers are high birdie makers and players that perform well on the par-4s, par-5s, and par-3s. Bubba Watson makes a lot of birdies and plays the par-4s and par-5s well, thus making him a good candidate for the Fourball format. The only issue with Bubba in the past is he has occasionally struggled on the par-3s. That can be resolved by pairing him with a player who makes a lot of birdies and is a strong performer on the par-3s. The reason for Jim Furyk’s struggles in the Fourball format is that he does not make a lot of birdies and is a merely average performer on the par-5s.

Note: All rankings below are based out of 209 golfers.

1. Patrick Reed

In the past, it has been difficult to get an accurate depiction of Reed’s game. He was notorious for either getting into contention or blowing up if he wasn’t in contention after the first round. He is now far better at avoiding those blowup rounds and remaining competitive regardless of how he well he performs at the beginning of the tournament. His iron play has been excellent, and since he is good on approach shots from the rough, short game around the green and he makes a lot of birdies and plays the par-4s and par-5s well, he should continue to be a great competitor in the Ryder Cup format. Given his inability to find the fairway off the tee, however, I would recommend pairing him with a quality performer from the rough in the alternate shot format.

2. Justin Thomas

On paper, Thomas should be Team USA’s toughest competitor as he has little in the way of holes in his game. He drives it great, hits his irons well from every distance, has a superb short game and can putt. He also makes a ton of birdies, plays every type of hole well and rarely makes bogeys. Like Reed, it would be advisable to pair him with a player that is a quality performer from the rough in the alternate shot format.

3. Dustin Johnson

DJ is the second-strongest performer on paper. The only thing that currently separates Justin Thomas from DJ is their Red Zone play. DJ has typically been a world-class performer from the Red Zone, however, and the data suggests that his ranking from the Red Zone should rapidly improve. He struck it well from the Red Zone in his last two events at Harbour Town Golf Links and TPC Sawgrass. And with his putting performance this season, he could make for a great competitor in this year’s Ryder Cup.

4. Jordan Spieth

Spieth has the metrics to be a strong Ryder Cup performer, as he strikes the ball well with his driver and his irons while having a superb short game around the green. His only weakness in the Fourball format is his performance on the par-3s, but that is due to his inability to make putts from 15-25 feet (198th). That is the crux of the situation for Spieth; can he get his old putting form back?

A look at previous great putters on Tour that inexplicably struggled with their putter shows that Spieth is going about his putting woes the correct way. He’s not making equipment or wholesale changes to his putting stroke. He is continuing to work with what made him a great putter just like Jason Day did last year when he inexplicably struggled with the putter early in the season… and then turned it around and regained his old putting form.

The question is, how long will it take for Spieth to regain his old form? Typically, players like Spieth that have a dramatic drop-off in their putting take about a year to regain their old form. He may not regain that form by the time the Ryder Cup takes place. If he does, Team USA is very strong with its top-4 points earners.

5. Bubba Watson

Bubba is off to a strong enough year to make the U.S. Ryder Cup Team, but the best bet for him is to stick to the Fourball format given his struggles around the green. Watson’s performance on the par-5s has not exactly been remarkable, but typically he’s one of the very best in the world on par-5s and can make a ton of birdies.

6. Rickie Fowler

Fowler has not been as strong in some areas of the game such as Red Zone, shots from the rough and putting as he has been in recent years. That makes him a little less appealing in the alternate shot format, but he still has a solid foundation to be a quality contributor in either format. The upside is if Rickie gets back to his old form with the putter and from the Red Zone, he should be a top-notch Ryder Cup performer because he is well suited to perform in either team format. At this time, he would be best suited to play with an accurate driver and very good performer around the green (i.e. Matt Kuchar) in the alternate shot format.

7. Brooks Koepka

There currently is not enough data on Koepka due to his wrist injury he suffered early in the season. Koepka is arguably the best bomber in the world who is also a great putter and a solid performer from the Red Zone. The main issue for Koepka has been his short game performance around the green. That would typically make for a weak partner in the alternate shot format, but Koepka was spectacular in the 2016 Ryder Cup. His combination of length and putting may make him a formidable Ryder Cup performer for years to come.

8. Phil Mickelson

As a statistical analyst for golf, I never quite know what I’m going to get from Lefty. This season Lefty has putted superbly, but his performance around the green has left a lot to be desired.

In recent Ryder Cups, he has been a quality performer in both the Foursome and Fourball formats. His recent success in the alternate shot format makes him a mandatory candidate, however, his inability to find the fairway means he would need a partner who is very good from the rough. The data suggests that his performance around the green should get closer to his old form as the season goes along.

9. Webb Simpson

Like Mickelson, it’s always a surprise as to what the strengths and weaknesses of Simpson’s game will be by the end of the season. Typically, he’s been a decent driver of the ball that is often a superb iron player and short game performer. With the anchoring ban, he has struggled with the putter up to this season. Lately, he has been an incredible putter that is struggling a bit with the irons.

Most of Simpson’s struggles with the irons have been from the rough, so a partner who finds a lot of fairways off the tee could be an excellent pairing in the foursome format with Simpson.

10. Matt Kuchar

Kuchar could be a very critical player for Team USA down the stretch. There are potential players on the team that could be valuable in the alternate shot format if they can find a teammate to find fairways off the tee to make up for their struggles on approach shots from the rough. Historically, Kuchar has been the most accurate off the tee of the players mentioned thus far.

This season, however, Kuchar has been underwhelming in his ability to find the fairway. The next most-accurate drivers of the ball that are near the top-12 in Ryder Cup points are Brian Harman, Bryson DeChambeau, Kevin Kisner and Andrew Landry, and none of them have nearly the experience in the Ryder Cup as Kuchar has. If Kuchar continues to miss fairways, his chances of making the team are not good unless he’s a Captain’s pick. If he cannot find the fairway, he has little-projected value as a member of the team. He is not making a lot of birdies, and his struggles on the par-3s and does not make him a favorable teammate in the Fourball format either.

11. Brian Harman

Harman’s value is that he has fairly decent Fourball metrics and his accuracy off the tee, putting, and iron play can work well with players like Fowler, Simpson, and Kuchar in the alternate shot format.

Harman has not performed that well from around the green using the Strokes Gained methodology, however; he ranks 15th on shots from 10-20 yards. I placed that metric in there as strokes gained takes into account all shots from less than 30 yards, but 10-20 yards is the most common distance range from which scrambling opportunities occur on Tour. Thus, Harman is an excellent performer from 10-20 yards and is only losing strokes around the green due to poor performance from 20-30 yards, and those shots occur less frequently on Tour. His struggles from 20-30 yards would also explain why his par-5 performance is roughly average, as that is the distance players typically finish from the hole when they go for par-5s in two and do not make the green.

And even though Harman is not very long off the tee (147th in Measured Driving Distance), he is a quality performer from the rough and thus he does not have to be tethered to another short-hitting, accurate driver in the alternate shot format.

12. Bryson DeChambeau

Dechambeau makes for a solid Ryder Cup candidate, as he has no outstanding weaknesses in his game this season as he appears to have rid himself of the putting woes that have hurt him in the past. I think he is better suited for the Fourball format, however, given how many birdies he makes. Pair him with a strong performer on the par-3s like Rickie Fowler or Phil Mickelson and it would make a very formidable duo in that format.

A pairing with Mickelson in the Fourball format would be intriguing given DeChambeau’s excellent driving. DeChambeau could hit first and — if he continues to drive it superbly — that would free up Mickelson to not worry so much about his woeful driving and focus more on making birdies. Perhaps a Fourball pairing with Bubba would make for a situation where DeChambeau could tee off first and pipe his drive, and then give Bubba a free rip to hit it as far as he possibly can and give them a sizeable advantage over their opponents.

31. Tiger Woods

I know I said I was only going to look at the top-12 players in Ryder Cup points, but the readers would inevitably ask about Tiger anyway. Furthermore, Tiger is an intriguing candidate for the team given his current game.

Tiger has struggled in both the Foursome and Fourball format. He seems to not play that great in alternate shot. In Fourball, it appears that he plays well by himself, but he is often let down by his teammates. The Europeans have always gunned for Tiger in the Ryder Cup, and it takes a special type of teammate to deal with the hysteria of having Tiger as their partner.

There are the makings of a very good alternate shot partner with Tiger, as his iron play and putting are still really good and his short game has been incredible this season. In the Fourball format, it would be advisable to find a strong par-5 performer, as Tiger’s performance on the par-5s has not been outstanding thus far. Having said that, I could see three excellent partners for Tiger in either format.

Patrick Reed has the numbers to be compatible with Tiger’s game, and he also has the track record of living up to the moment in the Ryder Cup. Dustin Johnson is can make up for Tiger’s possible big misses off the tee and can overpower a course with Tiger. And Phil Mickelson, whose game is compatible with Tiger’s, and could provide a symbol of the old guard working together to beat the Europeans.

There are certainly a lot of compelling possible pairings for Team USA, and there is still a long way to go before we start to see what pairings are available. The European Team looks like one of the strongest in years, and with all of the potential storylines for the 2018 Ryder Cup, it could be one of the greatest Ryder Cups of all time.

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Gear Dive: How Tiger Woods used to adjust his clubs based on swing changes

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Ben Giunta, a former Nike Tour Rep and now owner of the TheTourVan.com, joins host Johnny Wunder and TXG’s Ian Fraser on this episode of The Gear Dive. Ben discusses working in-depth with Nike Athletes before the company stopped producing hard goods. He has some fantastic intel on TW and the setup of his sticks (around the 14-minute mark). They also discuss Ben’s new endeavor.

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