Tom Wishon Talking to WRX Readers- 10 Myths About Shafts factual info about shafts to help you all

by   |   December 10, 2011
tom_wishon1

Before you read Tom’s posting in GolfWRX, if you didn’t know “who Tom is”… Tom Wishon is a golf club designer and researcher. Tom Wishon is a former member of the PGA of America who chose to pursue a career in golf equipment design and clubfitting research. While he has been offered the chance to head up golf club design for some of the largest golf club companies in the world, he has chosen to remain within the lesser known segment of the golf equipment industry that focuses on fitting golfers one at a time and building their golf clubs from high quality clubhead, shaft and grip component designs. He is also author of two best-selling consumer-oriented books, The Search for the Perfect Golf Club and The Search for the Perfect Driver.

If you want to see the original thread and industry discussion click here to go to the forums… http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/552963-10-myths-about-shafts/

Golf WRX Golfers:

After seeing how many of your questions are about shafts, and after reading several of these posts and answers, I really felt it would be of benefit to share some of the information I have been fortunate to figure out over the 20 plus years I have been doing serious shaft research and shaft design. I simply wish to offer this information because it is evident that many golfers do not have access to the facts about shafts. I felt it easier to convey this information through a series of Myths related to shafts that are compiled from having read tons of questions and comments from golfers about shafts. Because this is somewhat long, I did ask GolfWRX for permission to post this and Richard did say OK.

My goal as always is simply to offer golfers the most truthful and accurate information possible about golf equipment so golfers can make better buying decisions for their clubs.

Thank you, TOM WISHON


10 Myths About Shafts

1. The shaft is the engine of the golf club

2. The shaft is the most important component of the golf club

3. The letter flex code on the shaft tells me how stiff the shaft is

4. The shaft is a key element for the amount of backspin imparted on a shot

5. How a shaft plays and performs for one golfer or group of golfers is important for other golfers to know to be able to make a proper shaft selection decision

6. The more expensive a shaft, the better it is

7. The flex of the shaft has a very important effect on shot performance for all golfers

8. The higher the clubhead speed of the golfer, the stiffer the shaft should be

9. The right shaft adds distance by “kicking faster” through the ball

10. How a shaft performs for a golfer(s) is an indication of its quality

Shaft Myth #1 – The shaft is the engine of the golf club

If I had a dollar for every time I have heard this statement, I might not be rich, but I definitely would be able to go to a nice restaurant and enjoy a good dinner with a good bottle of wine! It is far more truthful to say that “the golfer is the engine,” while “the shaft is the transmission of the golf club.”

A shaft does not create energy during the swing. It is simply the component that takes the energy generated by the golfer and transmits it to the clubhead to hit the ball. It is true that if certain elements of the shaft are not properly fit to the golfer’s specific swing characteristics, the golfer can lose distance by experiencing a lower clubhead speed or more off-center hits than he could generate from using a correctly fit shaft. At the same token, if the shaft is accurately fit, the golfer has a much better chance of fully optimizing his/her potential to hit the ball to the best of their ability.

Performance wise, the shaft, 1) can affect the dynamic loft of the clubhead at impact within a narrow range of 2 to 3 degrees, but only for those golfers with a later to very late release; 2) will chiefly control the total weight of the club, which in turn can have an effect on the golfer’s clubhead speed, 3) can affect some golfers’ (not all) confidence and swing consistency by displaying a “bending feel” during the swing that is either more preferred or less preferred by the golfer. That’s it, that’s the full list of what the shaft can do.

Shaft Myth #2 – The shaft is the most important component of the golf club

Sorry, but when you’re talking about ALL golfers, the shaft is not as important to the actual performance of the shot as is the clubhead. I’ll give you an example of when this was actually “tested and proven” in the golf industry by a huge number of golfers. Back in the early 1970s when PING golf company moved to the front of the golf industry through the introduction of their deep cavity back original Ping Eye model irons, the standard shaft installed in every set of Eye irons was a 125 gram X flex steel shaft.

Ping’s founder Karsten Solheim used these shafts in his irons because he believed a heavier and stiffer shaft would help all golfers hit the ball straighter. Literally millions of sets of PING irons with X flex heavier weight steel shafts were sold throughout the 1970s and you know what? Literally millions of golfers liked their new PING irons more than their previous irons. Why? Because the original PING Eye irons were the very first irons with a deep cavity back design AND lower lofts than what had been the norm for irons – this meant the moment of inertia (MOI) of the Eye irons was FAR higher than any previous iron model yet designed. This in turn gave golfers such a huge improvement in off center hit performance as well as on center hit distance over the irons they previously used that this big leap forward in head performance completely overshadowed the potentially bad effects to golfers using a shaft that was too heavy and too stiff for their swing.

Of course, we know today that playing with too heavy and too stiff of a shaft can rob the golfer of clubhead speed and shot consistency and make the feeling of impact become “dead and boardy.” But the point shown by the PING example of the 1970s is that if the clubhead’s improvement is great enough for the golfer over what they used to play, the shaft does not have to be accurately fit for the golfer to still realize significant game improvement.


Shaft Myth #3 – The letter flex code on the shaft tells me how stiff the shaft is

No it doesn’t because there are absolutely no standards in the golf industry for how stiff any of the shaft flex codes are. Every golf company and shaft company is free to determine how stiff their various shaft flex letter codes are to be. As a result it is very common for the R Flex from one company to be similar in stiffness to the S Flex from another company or the A Flex from a third company. Not only that, but it is very common for a flex in one model of shaft to be stiffer or more flexible than the same letter flex in a different shaft model from the same company!

There is no better proof than to offer a clear illustration. Following is a graph comparison of 7 different R-Flex shafts, from 6 different companies. These shafts were all measured using the same methodology to graph the comparative stiffness at 7 identical points along the length of each different shaft. The numerical measurements represent cycles per minute (CPM) of frequency measured with a 454 gram weight on the tip end of the shaft.

For comparison of the relative stiffness for all these R Flex shafts, focus on the CPM measurements for the 41 in and 36 in columns in the data chart. At these points on the grip end of the shaft, a difference of 7 CPM in the 41/36 measurements is equivalent to one full flex, based on averages from more than 2000 different shafts. (when the tip weight is reduced to 205g, a 10cpm difference is equivalent to one full flex level) As you can see, among these 7 shafts there is a relative stiffness difference of 28 CPM, which is nearly four full flexes – and yet all of these shafts are labeled by their respective companies as being an R Flex shaft.

Next let’s look at a graph comparison of a number of the R Flex shafts from different shaft models, all from the same company. Within these 6 different R Flex shafts all from the same company, can be seen a range in basic stiffness of 19.5 CPM, which equates to a difference of nearly 3 full flex levels. Yet all are labeled as R flex shafts.

It is VERY IMPORTANT to understand that such variations are by intent and DO NOT represent a mistake or lack of quality in any manner by these companies. Remember, each company is free to determine their own standards for the actual stiffness for what each flex of each shaft is to be. It is not wrong – it just is the way it is.

What’s wrong is when golfers do not know this and make buying decisions based only on a meaningless letter code imprinted on the shaft. So the next time you head out to buy a new club(s) or a new shaft, please remember that R does not equal R, S does not equal S, and none of the letter codes equal each other. If you want another good reason for why it is worth it to be professionally custom fit by an experienced custom Clubmaker, here is yet another one of many reasons to do so. Many of the experienced clubmakers are well aware of the variations among the flexes of all the shafts and can guide you into the very best shaft selection for YOUR swing characteristics.

Shaft Myth #4 – The shaft is a key element for the amount of backspin imparted on a shot

That can be true. . . but only if you are a golfer who unhinges your wrist-**** angle late in the downswing and you have a clubhead speed north of 100 mph with the driver. If you are a golfer with a late release and a clubhead speed in the area of 85mph, the shaft is only going to have a small effect on backspin. And if you are a golfer with an early release, no matter what your clubhead speed, the amount of backspin you put on the shot is purely going to be determined by your clubhead speed, your angle of attack into the ball, the loft of your driver and where on the face you made contact with the ball.

It is very common for companies to market shafts as having spin characteristics – “low, medium or high spin” in their design. The problem is that it takes a very specific type of swing characteristic to even allow the shaft to have any effect whatsoever on the amount of spin imparted on the shot. That swing move is when you unhinge your wrist-**** angle to release the club during the downswing. In short, the later you hold onto the wrist-**** angle on the downswing, and the higher your clubhead speed, the more the shaft could have an effect on the backspin of the shot.

Here’s why, and here’s how shafts may or may not have a bearing on the amount of spin on a shot. First of all, keep in mind that only three things determine the amount of backspin on a shot – clubhead speed, the dynamic loft on the clubface at the point of impact, and the point of impact in relation to the center of gravity of the clubhead. (Angle of attack is a part of the dynamic loft) The higher the clubhead speed, the higher will be the spin for any given loft angle, the higher the loft on the clubhead at the moment of impact, and the lower the point of impact in relation to the CG, the greater will be the amount of backspin. Vice versa applies to these things for less spin.

But let’s talk about how the swing gets involved in all of this to be able to potentially interact with the club to have an effect on spin. Let’s say we’ve all made our backswing and we have the club positioned at the top, ready to swing down to the ball. From the moment the club starts down, for as long as we retain and hold our wrist-**** angle between our arms and the shaft, the arms and the club are accelerating at the same rate and the arms and club are both moving at the same velocity.

The split-second we start to unhinge the wrist-**** angle, the arms begin to slow down while the club begins to accelerate to a higher velocity. Because the arms are slowing down while holding on to the club, the faster moving clubhead starts to push against the shaft that is being held back by the hands and the shaft begins to flex forward. The more flexible the design of the shaft and/or the more tip flexible the design of the shaft, the more the shaft could flex forward at impact and from it, have more of an effect on launch angle, trajectory and spin.

If the golfer happens to hold the wrist-**** angle until very late in the downswing, the forward flexing of the shaft happens right when the clubhead meets the ball. If the shaft comes to impact flexed forward, this forward curve of the shaft increases the loft on the clubhead at impact – which in turn increases the launch angle AND increases the amount of backspin put on the shot. When shaft companies say this or that shaft is a “low spin design”, what they mean is that the shaft is designed to either be stiffer overall, or, stiffer in the tip section of the shaft. Stiffer shaft means less forward bending before impact, which means less of a loft increase at impact on the clubhead. . . but ONLY for a player with a later to very late unhinging of the wrist-**** angle on the downswing.

On the other hand, if the golfer unhinges the wrist-**** angle early on the downswing, all this forward flexing of the shaft happens well before impact. Thus for the early release golfer, by the time the clubhead gets to the ball, the shaft will have had time to flex back to a virtual straight position. That’s why for early release golfers, the shaft cannot have any additional effect on the dynamic loft on the clubhead and the amount of spin on the shot.


Myth #5 – How a shaft plays and performs for one golfer or group of golfers is important for other golfers to know to be able to make a proper shaft selection

Only if the golfers involved all happen to have EXACTLY, and I mean exactly, the same swing characteristics is someone else’s experience with a particular shaft of any importance. And how often do two or more golfers swing exactly the same way?

I can’t tell you how many times I have scanned posts on golf equipment internet forums from golfers who ask a question such as, “has anyone tried the XYZ shaft and what do you think of it?” Invariably, almost every golfer’s response comes back citing this or that personal opinion or playing result without ever saying one thing about any of their specific swing characteristics.

In addition, numerous times I have heard a golfer comment about a shaft to say something like, “that XYZ shaft is really a bad shaft. If golfers knew that shaft performance is so tied to specific golf swing characteristics they would say instead, “that shaft is probably a good shaft for some other golfer, but it is a bad shaft FOR ME AND MY SPECIFIC SWING CHARACTERISTICS.”

There is no such thing as a good shaft or a bad shaft in this game. There are only shafts that fit their owners and shafts that do not fit their owners. More than any other component, the performance of the shaft is completely related to a series of finite, specific swing and playing characteristics – your clubhead speed, your transition move to start the downswing, your downswing aggressiveness/tempo, the point during the downswing when you unhinge your wrist-**** angle to release the club to impact and whether you as a golfer do or do not have a specific, preferred sense for the bending feel of the shaft during the swing.


Shaft Myth #6 – The more expensive a shaft, the better its quality and the better it performs

There are few things in the golf industry that have become as much of a sore spot with me as this matter of shafts that cost $100, $200, $300 and even more. Shoot, I remember when we all thought a $40 shaft was expensive! What’s even worse are the uninformed golfers who see these $100 – $300 shafts and automatically form the opinion that if it costs that much, it has to be a really good shaft.

You want to know what the definition of a “good shaft” is? A good shaft is any shaft that has been very accurately matched for its weight, overall stiffness, bend profile, weight distribution and torque to a golfer’s clubhead speed, transition force, downswing tempo, wrist-**** release, strength and sense of feel. That’s the definition of a “good shaft” and it has absolutely nothing to do with brand, model or price.

There are 5 different specifications that determine the performance differences between shafts. 1) mass (weight); 2) overall stiffness (flex); 3) bend profile (distribution of the stiffness over the length of the shaft); 4) weight distribution (balance point); 5) torsional stiffness (torque). Two of these, the weight and the torque, are definitely related to the cost of the shaft. The lighter the weight and the lower the torque of a shaft, the more expensive the shaft will be to make. In other words, if you want to make a very stiff 45 gram shaft with less than 3? of torque, that shaft is going to cost a lot more money to make than a 65 gram softer flex shaft with 5? of torque. . . but not $100 to $300 by any means.

The other three shaft design elements, a shaft’s overall stiffness, bend profile and balance point, are not even close to being as price sensitive as the weight and torque. Standard modulus (low cost) graphite raw materials can be used to make any flex, bend profile or balance point from soft L to very stiff X.

Yes, many of the high dollar shafts are actually made with more expensive raw composite materials. But they don’t need to be made with such expensive materials to achieve their weight, flex, bend profile, balance point and torque. In my career I have measured the specifications of literally thousands of different shafts, and from my experience, I have yet to see a $100 to $300 shaft that could not be duplicated for weight, flex, bend profile, balance point and torque and sold at a normal profit in the industry for an aftermarket price of $25 to $50.

Shaft Myth #7 – The flex of the shaft has an important effect on shot performance for all golfers

For some golfers, very definitely this is true. But for many golfers, approaching even the majority of golfers, the flex of the shaft is one of the very least important of all the fitting specifications of a golf club.

To sum it up, the higher the clubhead speed, the more forceful the transition move, the more aggressive the downswing, the later the unhinging of the wrist-**** angle, and the more the golfer has an specific preference for the bending feel of the shaft, the more important the shaft flex will be to shot performance. For a slower swinging, smooth tempo, early release golfer who does not have a refined sense of feel for the bending action of the shaft, the flex is virtually unimportant and the WEIGHT of the shaft becomes the only important fitting element related to the shaft.

The one swing characteristic that has the most influence on making the flex become an important part of the performance of the shaft is the point of the wrist-**** release during the downswing. The later the wrist-**** release, the more the shaft can arrive at impact in a flexed forward position – which is how the shaft flex can have a visible effect on the launch angle, height and spin rate of the shaft.

Second after the release in terms of the swing moves that dictate the importance of shaft flex is the force the golfer applies during the transition move to start the downswing. The more forcefully, the more sudden, and the more aggressive the golfer starts the downswing, the more bending force is applied to the shaft. The more the golfer bends the shaft at the start of the downswing, the more the golfer could feel differences in shaft stiffness and from that, develop a preference for a specific type of bending feel in a shaft that if satisfied, can make a big difference in shot consistency and clubhead speed.


Shaft Myth #8 – The higher the clubhead speed of the golfer, the stiffer the shaft should be

There are two reasons this is frequently not true. First, as we said previously, with no standards in the golf industry for shaft flex, there are very definitely a lot of R flex shafts that are stiffer than a lot of S flex and even X flex shafts. So it can be very possible for a golfer with a certain clubhead speed to be properly fit with an S flex in one company’s shaft model, but to find that another company’s R flex may in fact be stiffer.

The second and main reason this statement is frequently not true is because clubhead speed is not the main element in the swing that determines how much a golfer actually bends a shaft during the swing. The swing element that applies the chief amount of bending force to a shaft is the golfer’s transition move to start the downswing. Among two golfers with the same clubhead speed, it can be very common for one golfer to have a short backswing with a very forceful, abrupt and sudden acceleration to start the downswing, while the other golfer might start the downswing with a much smoother, more gradual acceleration of the club.

Among two golfers with the same clubhead speed, the one with the stronger, more forceful transition move will always put more bending force on the shaft, and from it, will typically need a stiffer shaft than the golfer with the same swing speed who has a smooth, gradual acceleration of the club during the downswing. It is also not uncommon to see a golfer with a slower swing speed and stronger transition as well as a golfer with a higher swing speed and smoother transition move. In such a case, the slower swinging golfer with stronger transition would need a stiffer shaft than the golfer with a higher clubhead speed but smoother, less forceful transition move.

The bottom line is that while clubhead speed definitely offers a starting point for flex selection, the most accurate shaft fitting involves a careful evaluation of the other swing movements that have a direct effect on how much the shaft is flexed during the swing.


Shaft Myth #9 – The right shaft adds distance by “kicking faster” through the ball

It’s easy to assume this is true when you see a golfer use a different shaft with the same clubhead and experience a higher clubhead speed and more distance. Also contributing to this thought is the fact that a few companies have actually used the term “tip velocity” in the marketing of a shaft. As a result, there are a lot of golfers who believe shafts can be designed to possess the ability to “kick faster” than other shafts.

When a golfer changes shafts in an existing club and achieves a higher clubhead speed or gains distance, the things that most typically explain the increase in distance are as follows:

1. When an existing clubhead is re-shafted, along with the specs of the new shaft itself there very definitely can be changes in the length, the total weight and the swingweight of the club that happen as a result of switching from one shaft to another. If the new length, new total weight, new swingweight or combination of any of these three happen to fit the golfer’s size, strength, athletic ability and swing characteristics better than these elements did before in the club with the former shaft, very definitely this can result in a higher clubhead speed and more distance.

Very experienced clubfitters have seen many times when a change of 10 to 20 grams in the total weight, a change of 2 to 3 swingweights and/or a change of ½” to 1″ in the length of a club can all of a sudden allow the club to fit the golfer so well that a marked increase of 3 to 5mph in clubhead speed can occur. Such changes in total weight and/or swingweight are not at all unusual when shafts are changed because of the wide range in weight and balance point among different models of shafts.

2. When a golfer switches to a shaft that fits his sense of feel or feel preference better than a previous shaft, the golfer can very definitely have the tendency to swing in a more free, more unrestricted, and more confident manner than before – which in turn can very definitely can result in a higher clubhead speed from which more distance occurs.

Think about it this way. If you’ve played a lot of golf and hit a lot of different golf clubs, at one time or another you have probably hit or played with clubs in which the shafts are either much too stiff or too flexible for your sense of feel when you swing the club and hit the ball. When you have hit clubs with shafts that are too stiff, what is your first inclination? Probably to try to swing harder so as to elevate your swing speed/force to better match the stiffer shaft. And what happened to your swing consistency when you did this? That’s right, not the best results.

Perhaps at some point in your playing life you have tripped across a club with a shaft that when you swung the club, everything just felt perfect. The shaft didn’t feel too stiff or too flexible when you started the downswing and when you released the club to hit the ball, you felt the shaft kick at exactly the right time and with exactly the right amount of kick. In such a case, I bet your natural inclination was to forget about any type of swing manipulation and to just “let it fly” when you swung – a full, free, unrestricted swing with nothing getting in the way of “letting it go.”

For golfers who do have a preferred sense of feel for the way the shaft bends during the swing, even if they cannot clearly describe that feel in words, being able to find a shaft that bends, flexes and unloads in exactly the manner they prefer is a sure ticket to swinging with the highest natural clubhead speed their swing can generate. And definitely a higher speed than they can generate when the shaft either feels too stiff or too flexible.

Shafts cannot be designed to have a higher or lower flexing velocity. They simply are designed with differences in stiffness, weight, torque and weight distribution which either do or do not fit the swing characteristics and preference for feel of the golfer using the shaft. Again, there is no magic in this. There are thousands of combinations of shaft weight, flex, bend profile, weight distribution, and torque and thousands of combinations of golfer swing speed, transition force, downswing tempo, wrist **** release and feel preferences. The perfect shaft is when these two sides get matched up to each other in a perfect shaft fitting.


Shaft Myth #10 – How a shaft performs for a golfer is an indication of its quality

No, how a shaft performs for a golfer is an indication of how well the shaft’s weight, flex, bend profile, balance point and torque were FIT to the golfer’s size, strength, athletic ability and swing characteristics. Remember what I said about “good shafts” and “bad shafts”? There are no such things. There are only well fit and poorly fit shafts.

Shaft quality is more a case of how consistently can the shaft maker hit each one of the production specifications for each shaft they make within a very narrow range of error tolerance, shaft after shaft after shaft. And believe me, by no means does the cost of a shaft guarantee this definition of shaft quality.

In my shaft research work, my shaft data base now includes nearly 2000 different shaft models. In doing this, I get a chance to measure all sorts of specifications on a lot of different shafts from most of the shaft manufacturers in the world. When you measure multiples of the same model and flex of shafts, you get the chance to see who maintains tight error tolerances and who doesn’t. And I can tell you, the price of a shaft is not always related to how consistent or how tight the tolerances are for a company’s shafts.

Some of the high dollar shafts do display very tight, consistent error tolerances. Some don’t. And some of the lower priced shafts show a very high level of shaft to shaft consistency while again, some do not.

If you want to see the original thread and industry discussion click here to go to the forums… http://www.golfwrx.com/forums/topic/552963-10-myths-about-shafts/

About

GolfWRX is a leading source for news, information and resources for the connected golfer. It's staff, featured writers and members report on the latest golf news and how it inspires golfers around the world. GolfWRX’s 3.1 million monthly visits is the world's largest and best online golf community. It surrounds consumers throughout the buying, learning and enrichment process with original photographic and video content, peer-to-peer advice, camaraderie, technical how-tos and more.


12 Comments

  1. John

    May 26, 2014 at 2:23 pm

    What is the reason for not having an industry standard to what the letters mean in the flexibility of the shaft? it seems as if this would be and should be regulated in order for consumers to purchase what we believe might be the best suited shaft for our game. Not everyone has the resources to go to a golf shop and pay the prices to get fitted clubs, or the knowledge. i have been to golf stores with “Golf Pros” and i would rely on them telling me this information but this is the first time i have heard or read that there is a wide variance on the flex of a shaft from manufacture to manufacturer. Seems very odd

  2. Ivan McAllister

    October 24, 2013 at 7:32 pm

    What a brilliant and informative article. By and large most players would be ignorant of th detail and facts concerning getting clubs to fit them. Custom fitting seems to have helped. Cannot help but feel that manufactures have prior to the past few years, used the public’s ignorance of golf shafts to their own advantage

  3. steven jalbert

    September 28, 2013 at 5:57 am

    why does tom keep using **** for wrist cock lol isnt that a normal term in golf info

  4. snowman0157

    July 20, 2013 at 10:05 pm

    Awesome. In my experience 99.9% of golfers have no understanding that the “Shaft Flex” printed on the shaft is virtually meaningless (not to mention all the other great info. presented here). Most golfers think there is some kind of standard for shaft flex. The manufacturers would do us all a service if they would provide some kind of standardization. Also, I have to say I have not had a lot of conversations with club fitters, but of the several I have had, I would say Most of the fitters I have spoken to understand that there is no standard flex rating across manufacturers, but they seem to think that all Company X Stiff Shafts are Stiffer than all of their R Shafts…. Sad really. BTW I have a 94 MPH Driver Swing speed and Play and “X” flex. …. go figure.

  5. Pingback: GolfWRX.com – Tom Wishon Talking to WRX Readers- 10 Myths … | Golf Products Reviews

  6. Dennis Muron

    March 26, 2012 at 2:24 am

    Great posting, Tom. Thanks for putting the time and energy into the truth. As I am a mechanical engineer, the explanations were right on. I also own a set of your beautiful irons (550M and 550MC) and always get compliments by most everyone. They play and feel as good as they look. I am surprised more pros do not play them but understand the endorsement income lures. Hang in there.

  7. Jeff McCarthy

    December 19, 2011 at 6:54 pm

    Good review.I have had different R flex shafts in my drivers and there is certainly a big discrepancy in the performance.
    Is it ethical to name the shaft Manufacturer?

  8. Jeff Bricker

    December 14, 2011 at 11:39 am

    Great info as always my friend. Glad to see that you are still rockin the club biz.
    Jeff Bricker

  9. Jeff Bricker

    December 14, 2011 at 11:38 am

    Awesome article and info as always Tom!!!

  10. Sligolefty

    December 12, 2011 at 9:40 pm

    Thanks for the honesty and the clarity. A clean and clear light in a land of deliberate fog!

  11. GolfWRX

    December 12, 2011 at 6:50 pm

    If you reed the live thread in teh forums Gawain the co founder of Accra Shafts added his comment to. Great stuff

  12. dqtee

    December 12, 2011 at 1:40 pm

    Wow! What an awesome posting. Total thanks to Tom Wishon for having shared his knowledge! He certainly didn’t have to and this info surely have opened my eyes about the confusing staff decals I’ve been seeing.

Leave a Reply

Your email address will not be published. Required fields are marked *

You may use these HTML tags and attributes: <a href="" title=""> <abbr title=""> <acronym title=""> <b> <blockquote cite=""> <cite> <code> <del datetime=""> <em> <i> <q cite=""> <strike> <strong>