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Forum Thread of the Day: “If you are a 10 handicap with declining length, what clubs do you buy?”

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Today’s Forum Thread of the Day comes from tsecor – a 10 handicapper who has noticed in the past couple of years that he has begun to lose some distance. Our members give their views on how tsecor can solve this issue, ranging from new club suggestions to a possible shaft change.

Here are a few posts from the thread, but make sure to check out the entire discussion and have your say at the link below.

  • agolf1: “I’d play Ping G410 like irons. However, you could also try lighter shafts in the more players’ clubs if your strike is still pretty good. Regardless, at some point, a low lofted iron may need to go if the speed isn’t there.”
  • Lepatrique: “Definitely go get fitted because swing tendencies (speed, attack angle, spin rate, etc.) will result in different answers. I carry a 6ir around 190-195 and based on my fitting (3 weeks ago) I found the Srixons – Both the 785 and z forged – went much longer than anything else I hit (holding shaft constant). They spun less and generated a lot of ball speed. 10-15 yards more distance on 6ir. Others – Mizuno 919 tour, mp18, Miura mc501, Apex pro, taylormade 730 – were all right in my typical distance. I passed on the srixons because they actually didn’t spin enough.”
  • 2putttom: “There’s not much help for getting older and losing distance, however, after struggling for two seasons I bagged Srixon 7 series and regained what yardage I had lost over the last five years.”
  • morgan18/19: “You are on the right track with a shaft change, and/or optimization. Keep everything else (flex pattern, swing weight, length, etc.) the same, but drop 10-15 grams from the shafts in your long irons. Good chance you will gain some carry distance, and hit better shots at the end of a round.”

Entire Thread: “If you are a 10 handicap with declining length, what clubs do you buy?”

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Gianni is the Assistant Editor at GolfWRX. He can be contacted at gianni@golfwrx.com. Follow him on Twitter @giannimosquito

22 Comments

22 Comments

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    Apr 8, 2020 at 12:02 am

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    Dec 11, 2019 at 4:04 am

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  4. kev

    Jun 18, 2019 at 10:09 pm

    i wouldn’t buy clubs. the best way to regain whatever distance you had most likely relates to fitness and flexibility. i lost lots of distance because i’ve gotten overweight by 25 pounds. with that weight gain i lost lots of flexibility. i’ve gone on a exercise program doing medium weights strengthening, stretching, swimming…..i’ve gotten few of the distance i lost back. the other lost yardages lost is from not enough shaft lean. i’ve got in a rut of going up on the ball. once i fix that i should be back to default mode.

  5. Handicapped Handicap

    Jun 16, 2019 at 11:31 pm

    Grab a longer club and when someone asks what you hit always reply with “sand wedge”

  6. Rich

    Jun 9, 2019 at 10:16 pm

    You play the clubs your clubfitter fits you for, based on your personal swing characteristics.

  7. that way

    Jun 9, 2019 at 3:33 pm

    Go get custom fit and custom built… Duh.

  8. Jim

    Jun 9, 2019 at 10:07 am

    Most major club producers are offering distance irons. I suggest picking the heads you like the looks of then demoing those heads with both steel and graphite shafts to see which irons perform the best. An y good club fitter should be able to let you do this, and if you buy the clubs, the fitting is free. Some of these distance irons are Callaway RogueX, Titleist AP3, Ping G700, etc.

  9. SoonerSlim

    Jun 9, 2019 at 9:57 am

    Most of the major club manufacturers are producing a club that is designed with lower lofts for greater distance. For example, Callaway has the Rogue X, Titlelist the AP3, and Ping the G700s. I suggest two things for buying new clubs: First, if you’re like me, pick the club heads you like the looks of, then demo all of them to see which gives you the best performance. Try to demo them with both steel and graphite shafts. You can usually do this with an accomplished fitter, and it you buy the clubs, then the fitting is free.

  10. Matthew Hill

    Jun 9, 2019 at 8:38 am

    Doesn’t anyone realize today’s lofts on clubs are average 2 clubs stronger. pw were always 48 degrees now callaway etc are 41 degrees. Duh! anyone should should hit today’s club longer. Simple reason to upgrade.

  11. Howard Clark

    Jun 9, 2019 at 8:01 am

    Move up to the correct tee so the height you’re generating with your approach matches what the architect intended when he built the hole. Or continue trying to run a 4 iron onto an elevated green that calls for an 8 iron approach. But as a fellow competitor says, “But my ego!!” He used to be a 1. My answer is, “Doesn’t your ego come into play when you shoot 82???”

  12. Jim Lynch

    Jun 9, 2019 at 6:35 am

    I grabbed back 8-10 yards per club and picked up slightly higher trajectory by swapping out my KBS shafts for Aerotech Steelfiber 110’s in my Ping S55’s. Plus, I can beat more balls and not have sore wrists anymore. Yeah, for me it’s probably time for an upgraded head, too, like i210, i500 or Apex Pro but I don’t think you have to overhaul yourself to a game improvement head just yet.

  13. DC

    Jun 8, 2019 at 11:47 pm

    The Srixon players are full of it. 10 handicap and losing distance and you use a players club to gain distance? What am I missing other than your lies? Who vets these BS answers? Get a softer shorter shaft like your useless dong and slice it into the high grass circle jerk where your other “gamers” are making facial shots.

  14. Jack Nash

    Jun 8, 2019 at 8:08 pm

    If you’re a 10 & rising you don’t buy Tour irons. Something like JPX Hot Metal is more like it. If you’re losing distance these are your best bets.

    • James Pickett

      Jun 26, 2019 at 10:29 pm

      I bought a 4-pw set of jpx 900 hot metals with xp95 stiff soft stepped 2x. I carry the 8 iron 150. I mix in the 9,pw,gw in forged with xp105 for windy days. I carry the 4 iron around 195-200 and it’s just stupid how long these clubs are and I’m 50 years old. Technology in shafts and club heads are impressive compared to 10 years ago. The price is high as well though. You’re comment nailed it.

  15. Ben

    Jun 8, 2019 at 7:47 pm

    I switched to hybrids with graphite shafts. I play a 2 through 6 hybrid. They are much easier to hit both from the fairway and in the rough. They seem to get plenty of carry, high launch and stop on the greens. I don’t care what the number is on the club just if it gets there or not. I am 70 years old and this really works of me. I play PXG hybrids which were a little costly (although I got them through the PXG for Heros program). I am a 8 handicap and play a course that is 6800 yards long. Give them a try. I think you’ll be surprised. Good luck

  16. Bob Jones

    Jun 8, 2019 at 5:39 pm

    I bought a rocket-propelled driver.

  17. Bill

    Jun 8, 2019 at 4:45 pm

    Don’t be too proud to move up to the next tee. No shame in it.

    • Peter McGill

      Jun 8, 2019 at 8:03 pm

      They let you do that in the comp? Super!

  18. Steve

    Jun 8, 2019 at 7:12 am

    I gained 20 yds from callaway rogue x’s and improved distribution

  19. Q

    Jun 7, 2019 at 3:39 pm

    Hit the gym, get a trainer, get stronger, it’s never too late
    Stretch more
    Walk more

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Equipment

TaylorMade P Series irons: Talking tour integration

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Now that the cat has been let out of the bag on the new 2020 TaylorMade P Series irons, I wanted to get some intel on how these new sticks will start to infiltrate the major tours and what that might look like.

TaylorMade’s Adrian Rietveld is one of the individuals that players like Rory, Rahm, and a number of the European staff trust to transition into new product.

I had a chance to chat with him this week on all things P Series, and this is what he had to say.

JW: In a general sense, what is the process for you when integrating a new product on Tour?

AR: I never like to do [more than] one product at a time, unless I’m at the Kingdom or off-site. On tour, it’s essential the focus stays in a bubble and we deal with one thing at a time. We typically will speak before any testing is done and I’ll get a sense from them what is looking to be gained or if there are any glaring issues.

The main place to start is going apples-to-apples spec-wise—old product vs new product. At that point we can see what the new product is offering, i.e. where it’s good and also identify what we need to do to get dialed across the board.

JW: Of the main Tour staff, who is testing now, and who will be testing after the season is over?

AR: Can’t answer exactly who is currently testing because all players test at different times, but I know our U.S. and European core staff players all have sets including non-staff players that also have our equipment in play.

The cool thing is the players who have had the time to test put them in play quickly which is a good sign.

JW: Rory put the P7MB in play quickly. What did he respond to on the P7MB that encouraged the switch?

AR: He did, but by the time, he got them he had been testing with us for a good while. When he got the set he has now, he was already quite familiar with them, so the transition was easy. This iron was designed with a lot of his input (as well as DJ) and both players had very nuanced but similar preferences, so it’s safe to say he was comfortable with them when they came outta the box.

It’s not a huge switch from his 730’s. He liked that he picked up marginal improvements across the board and was particularly pleased of the simplicity of the set—especially in the longer irons with less offset.

JW: What improvements are you seeing so far vs old models?

AR: For MB, using Charley Hull as an example, the 730 for her seemed to turn over a bit and was a bit less forgiving. With the 7MB, she neutralized her ball flight all while keeping her spec identical to her old set.

In the MC the long irons seem to launch a touch higher with a fraction more speed. Every player who has tested has made the switch, and that’s with no pressure to do so. We are patient when players irons hit in regards to player switches. I believe in the next 6-9 months you will see a ton of MC’s in bags, whether its staff or non-staff.

JW: Do you think you will see more combo sets than before?

AR: To be honest most setups these days are combo sets in some way shape or form. What I think we will see are players having the P7MB play further down into the set. For example, the player that was 4, 5, 6 750 and 7-P in 730 will now start to have the MB in the 5 and 6. That little addition of forgiveness will give players enough confidence and performance to make them comfortable.

JW: Using Rahm as an example, what is his process when he is getting into a new product?

AR: He spends a lot of time at The Kingdom and does any major switching there. He’s not a player who tends to tinker at a tournament site. As with most of our staff, his process is about making sure any switch in the bag is a step forward in performance. Since he lives in Arizona, getting to Keith and me in Carlsbad isn’t a long trip and that gives us ample quiet time to focus, test, and experiment.

*according to TaylorMade, eight sets P Series irons have been built for players on the European Tour with seven going into play immediately.

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Equipment

Best tips for shopping for used golf clubs

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We’re in the middle of the golf season, and there is still lots of time left to lower your handicap, post a personal best score, and have some more fun along the way—but it might require some news clubs to get there. The best part is today, new doesn’t have to mean brand new—it can just be “new” to you.

Before spending any money shopping for used golf clubs, it’s important to pay close attention to a number of small details to save you time—and prevent you from having to spend more money down the road to correct for purchasing mistakes.

Here is our how-to guide to shop for used clubs

Shop the big sellers: Unless you are buying locally and have the opportunity to inspect clubs and know their source, the safest and easiest way to shop is from the big online sellers that inspect and verify the clubs they sell are legit.

Although thanks to a very concerted effort by OEMs to mostly eliminate counterfeit gear, it can still find its way into the marketplace and big sellers help stop the spread and prevent you from wasting your money. Also, most of the big sellers use photos of the actual clubs you are buying – not representative photos so you know exactly what you are getting.
**(We also have a great Buy/Sell/Trade board here on GolfWRX too)**

The telltale signs of counterfeit clubs are

  • Badge and brand colors slightly off
  • Poorly installed shaft bands (the stickers on steel shafts)
  • Awful smelling grips – they can feel thin and smell like very cheap rubber or solvents
  • Club weight seems very off – for irons and wedges they might feel extremely light and for drivers and woods they can feel a lot heavier because of the extremely poor quality graphite shafts being used.

Confirm specs: You don’t need to have a shop worth of tools to quickly and easily take some simple measurements to make sure you and getting clubs that match the right spec you are looking for, although a very specific tool is needed to check lies and lofts.

Specs you can check without tools – irons and wedges

  • Lengths: If lengths arent stated and you are buying in person, just simply bring a few of your own clubs to compare.
  • Grips: A quick check that all of the grips match for size and style can save you money, and make sure they feel good when you go to use them. Don’t forget though, grips are an easy and affordable way to make used clubs feel new again.
  • Matching shafts: A quick visual inspection to make sure the shafts match up will make sure you are getting what you pay for. Along that same line, checking to also make sure the ferrules match will show whether any club in the set was potentially repaired at some point.

Shopping for used clubs can feel like a treasure hunt and is a lot of fun—it’s also a great way to save money on equipment. Just be sure to not get caught up in what might seem like a deal too good to be true and take your time when evaluating what you are buying.

Happy (used golf club) shopping!

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Korea’s AutoFlex Shaft: Challenging the conventional wisdom of golf

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We are creatures of habit, or so I’ve been told. And God knows old habits are hard to break. Just ask my right leg that simply refuses to stop reverse-pivoting, despite my best intentions.

Equally hard to break are pre-conceived notions and superstitions. There are hundreds of them to be sure, but I want to focus on one particular idea in golf that seems to be largely unchallenged for its conventional wisdom: The more flexible the shaft, the less accurate it is.

You may have heard a similar version of the same idea. Stiffer shafts offer straighter shots, faster swingers need stronger shafts, and whippier shafts result in more slice. But a recent find has caused me to challenge this well-established notion—that an ultralight, super flexible shaft (44 grams) is claiming to be not only straighter but longer as well.

My first reaction: “NO WAY”. The shaft would practically be a fishing rod. There’s no way that it would stand up to my normal swing speed of 98~100 mph.

But the kicker was that the makers of this ‘breakthrough’ shaft doubled down on me by claiming that their fishing rod-esque shaft can hold under swing speeds of up to 150mph! That’s up in the territory of world long drive champions-and they are practically inhuman! Now I was scoffing out loud—time to put the money where their mouth was.

(Jung-hwan MOON, member of Korean National long drive team, testing out the new AutoFlex FS505 shaft)

The new shaft is named AUTO FLEX. Sounds a little cheesy, until you realize that Dumina Inc., the South Korean shaft manufacturer, also makes AUTO POWER shafts that have caused a local sensation on the KLPGA and elite amateur circles over the past few years.

Autopower shafts have proven itself to be effective, largely due to a wide range of 50+ shafts offering a much smaller gapping of about 5-10 CPMs between shafts. It allowed golfers to dial into their particular swing speed more effectively. Its use of their proprietary weaving pattern and as-yet-undisclosed material KHT (Korea Hidden Technology!?) also did what it said it would. Smooth feel, mid-high launch, and great accuracy/forgiveness.

FLEXING SOME MUSCLE

Enter AUTO FLEX, the new generation of shafts that Dumina claims will make the game of golf easier and more enjoyable for all golfers. By allowing golfers to swing more easily and smoothly with a much lighter shaft, golfers will not only feel fewer aches and pains but that their scores will improve as well.

Oh, and did I mention that there are only 3 shafts that are supposed to fit all levels of swing speeds from 65 to 150mph?

“NO WAY”, you say? I told you so.

Autoflex SF305 shaft / 38 grams / approx. 170cpm / Ladies / SS 60~80mph
Autoflex SF405 shaft / 44 grams / approx. 180cpm / Men / SS 80~95mph
Autoflex SF505 shaft / 51 grams / approx. 210cpm / Pro / SS 95~120+mph

According to the specs provided, I was fit for the SF405 shaft. The SF stands for ‘Spec Free’ meaning that these shafts do not follow the conventional labeling system of R, S, X, and weight. The first few waggles and I was at a loss for words.

Dumina claimed that after three rounds with the Autoflex, I would be well adjusted and that results would be prominent. I began by hitting a few shots with the 43-gram shaft and immediately noticed that the shaft had something much more than meets the eye.

Once I got over the initial doubt that a whippy shaft would not be able to square up to the ball at impact and started to swing normally, the shots flew straight with a bump up in launch angle. The higher launch (from 9Âş up to 13Âş) gave me more carry distance over my previous gamer, but I thought it might be increasing my backspin. But a quick check with a launch monitor showed an average of 2,000-2,100 RPM, which was about the same as before.

But the most noticeable numbers were from the total distance, which was about 5~7 yards farther than my usual average. This was surprising because I felt I was swinging a little slower and smoother than before (it may be from the fear that the whippy shaft may cause a duck hook), but the average ball speed increased from 62~63mph to about 65.

I venture that because the shaft is more flexible, it causes the head speed to increase, kind of like cracking a whip of sorts. This somewhat fits into my current belief that a more flexible shaft hits the ball longer (at the expense of accuracy).

Pretty darn good numbers for me, but ZERO side spin means a straight as an arrow shot and 1.50 smash factor.

 

The numbers on the launch monitor were impressive for my standards and usual play. But it needed to be tested out on the course.

At the time of this article, I have played some 10 rounds with the new AutoFlex shaft on my Cobra F9 driver (10.5°, 45.25 inches at D2) and I couldn’t be happier with my results. My driving accuracy has significantly improved over the conventional shaft (HZRDUS Smoke 6S).

I’ve played in both fair and very windy conditions, and the results were the same. I was finding a lot more fairway than ever before. That pesky little draw at the end that rolls the ball into the left rough has all but disappeared.

To be frank, I didn’t see much change in the overall distance as well-struck shots from both my old gamer and new shaft tended to go about the same distance. However, it was the frequency of how often I was able to hit the sweet spot with the new shaft that made me feel much more confident in swinging the driver on the tightest of fairways.

I am still searching for the right words to explain it, but the driver feels whippy on the backswing and yet it feels like the entire length of the shaft firms up on the downswing and at impact. At times, I was certain that the shot completely missed the center of the face and a quick check confirmed that I struck the ball on the heel or toe, well outside the center. But the resulting ball flight is either a slight push or pull with a small distance loss of about 10 yards. Yet, no bananas or duck hooks that I’ve come to associate with such mishits and feedback to the hands. What sorcery is this?

But the most beneficial factor for me was that I was swinging the club much easier and with less energy exertion than I would have done with a heavier, stiffer shaft. I had a lower back disc surgery five years ago that prevents me from making a full turn and a limited finish. Playing with longer-hitting friends invariably leads me to try to swing harder at a faster tempo, usually leading to ballooning scores.

With AutoFlex, once I dialed into the new reality with an adjusted belief about whippier shafts, I was able to maintain both accuracy and distance for the whole round and not feel as tired. And I was better able to maintain my balance with a smoother swing and not have to worry about losing distance. Perhaps this is what let me hit the face center more often. Just like the namesake, it was as if the shaft was automatically trying to help fix my swing flaws to provide maximum forgiveness.

Whatever it is, I was sold.

I now have the same spec AutoFlex shaft in my 3-wood as well. If I had trouble getting my fairway woods up in the air previously, no one would suspect that of me now.

I would love to replace all of my shafts, irons and all if I could afford it, but unfortunately, the shafts are quite expensive. The company tells me that the “hidden technology” material and the manufacturing process is quite costly (nearly seven times over regular shaft manufacturing cost), and they are available in limited quantities at 950,000 KRW (about $775) each.

For me, the proof was in my new-found fearlessness with the driver and wood. I get a kick out of waggling my driver on the first tee to the shock of my playing partners and then bust a drive down the middle. Some still can’t come to grips with the shaft despite trying for themselves. And the makers of the shaft are keeping their lips sealed on what makes the shaft behave differently than the commonly held perceptions. In fact, Dumina has not applied for a patent at all, stating that once their secret is out, it will change the way we play golf and limit their business from copycats. So whatever KHT is about, it will remain undisclosed for the time being.

What do you think? Do you have any ideas on how the AutoFlex shaft works or what are its component materials? I would be interested in hearing from other gear heads out there!

 

 

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