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Forum Thread of the Day: “Slightly more forgiving players irons”

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Today’s Forum Thread of the Day comes from Z1ggy16 who is on the search for more forgiving players irons. Z1ggy16, who is a lefty, is currently gaming CB/MB combos, but while loving the classic look and feel of playing Miura irons, he’s on the hunt for a more forgiving option. Classic looking is a requirement, and our members dig in and share their preferred choices.

Here are a few posts from the thread, but make sure to check out the entire discussion and have your say at the link below.

  • fpyle3: “I play a set of Miura CBs, but have a set of 716 AP2s in a backup bag that are definitely more forgiving. The newest AP2s may be even better, and certainly, look better. As a lefty, you may be able to find a deal on something like that? I’ve owned the Mizzy MP54s, and while they felt pretty good and were relatively forgiving, they launched higher than I expected and played a little shorter than I had hoped.”
  • bcsquare: “I would suggest the 718 AP2, and Apex Pro 19’s given your criteria. I’ve found both to be very forgiving for a player’s CB. 716 and 718 CB’s are another great choice. I’m curious why the MP-18SC didn’t work out. The MP-18MMC is quite good and has a bit firmer feel.”
  • NixHex525: “S55s are great and very player looking…. The Srixon 7×5 series might also be worth a look, but my current J15 CB have been the most forgiving iron while still having that player look. Blade length is a touch longer than my 745s, but the top line is thinner, which I love. They have been phenomenal irons so far, good enough I put the S55s up for sale. Currently own those 3 and have enjoyed playing all of them from a feel and forgiveness standpoint.”
  • KevCannon: “I will second the Cally X Forged, now I am definitely biased as I game those currently. I tested 18’ AP2, had played 16’ apex pro, MP 18sc and Mmc, two finalists were x forged and mp18 sc, x forged just felt better and softer.”

Entire Thread: “Slightly more forgiving player irons”

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Gianni is the Assistant Editor at GolfWRX. He can be contacted at gianni@golfwrx.com. Follow him on Twitter @giannimosquito

8 Comments

8 Comments

  1. Josh Dhadwa

    Apr 15, 2019 at 6:00 am

    Just went from the 714 ap2 to 718 mb. can’t wait to hit the course with them.

  2. Chad

    Apr 13, 2019 at 12:40 pm

    MP32s all day

  3. Michael Portus

    Apr 13, 2019 at 11:49 am

    Had both the 919 Tours and Taylormade p750 decided to go with P750s because of all of the success they’ve had on tour. Sergio’s Masters win, Xander’s rise even used them after signing with Callaway, McIlroy likes them in a long iron, Jason Day has won multiple times with them and so has Jon Rahm. Even the high level amateurs are using them. They feel great and perform very well imo.

    • jgpl001

      Apr 13, 2019 at 12:59 pm

      Couldn’t agree more on the p750’s, really good iron and has knocked mp18’s out of my bag

      • Michael Portus

        Apr 13, 2019 at 10:02 pm

        Straight butter!!!! Hard to explain unless you have them in hand!

  4. Morris

    Apr 13, 2019 at 6:00 am

    I like this type of questions and almost all the time answers like this make me smile. The most important part of a golf club is the shaft not the head. Head is for beauty and shaft is for performance in the same way as driver is for show and putter for money. Ask every manufacturer or custom fitter and they will confirm. Of course for every head and for every swing there is a shaft according with what player want and need. So, go to a custom fitting centre and you will find there what you want for a most forgiving hit. But be carefull cause if you will change your swing after, you will need again another custom fitting session…

  5. rex 235

    Apr 12, 2019 at 9:32 pm

    Aren’t the Mizuno 919 Tour Forged irons RH Only?

    Asking for a few friends…

  6. C

    Apr 12, 2019 at 2:31 pm

    Clearly it’s the 919 Tour. Can’t get any more forgiving than that for a player’S club. So easy to hit this thing

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Whats in the Bag

Byeong Hun An WITB 2020

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  • Equipment accurate as of the Farmers Insurance Open

Driver: Titleist TS3 (8.5 degrees, B2 SureFit setting)
Shaft: Accra TZ5 M5 Proto 65 X

3-wood: Titleist TS2 (13.5 degrees @14.25, D4 SureFit setting)
Shaft: Accra TZ6 M5 Proto 65 X

Utility iron: Titleist U500 (2)
Shaft: Project X EvenFlow Black

Irons: Titleist 716 T-MB (3-5), Titleist 620 MB (6-9)
Shafts: Project X PXi 7.0 (3-5), Project X 6.5 (6-9)

Wedges: Titleist Vokey Design SM8 (48-10F, 52-08F, 56-08M), Vokey Design WedgeWorks (60-T)
Shafts: Project X 6.5 (48, 52, 56), True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue S400 (60)

Putter: Scotty Cameron GSS Prototype
Shaft: LAGP Ozik 135P
Grip: Scotty Cameron Pistolini

Ball: Titleist Pro V1x

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Bettinardi and Big League Chew launch special headcovers, ball marker, and limited-edition DASS BB8-Wide putter

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Bettinardi x Big League Chew

Bettinardi and Big League Chew have teamed up to launch a full product line of special headcovers, club sets, a ball marker, a tee-shirt, and a limited 1/5 custom Big League Chew putter.

The special 1/5 DASS BB8-Wide Big League Chew putter weighs 355 grams, features a purple flame finish and contains Fancy Face milling. The custom flat-stick from Bettinardi and Big League Chew can be purchased in The Hive for $2,200.

Putter Specs: 

  • Model: BB8 Wide
  • Weight:  355 grams
  • Material:  DASS
  • Finish: Purple Flame
  • Face milling: Fancy Face

Bettinardi X Big League Chew

The co-branded headcovers and golf products celebrate the passion for the game of golf as well as paying tribute to the only gum to ever be featured at the National Baseball Hall of Fame Museum.

Bettinardi X Big League Chew

Check out the full product line below:

  • Big League Chew x Betti Headcover – $100.00
  • Big League Chew x Betti Mallet Headcover – $100.00
  • Big League Chew x Betti Club Cover Set – $300.00
  • Big League Chew x Betti Players Towel – $55.00
  • Big League Chew x Betti Ball Marker – $55.00
  • Big League Chew x Betti Pocket Tee – $35.00
  • Big League Chew x Betti Hat – $35.00
  • Big League Chew x Betti Yeti – $75.00

Bettinardi X Big League Chew

The Bettinardi X Big League Chew collaboration items will be available to purchase in The Hive at Bettinardi.com from 10 CDT on Thursday April 2 2020.

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Phase 1 vs. P7TW: An inside look at Tiger Woods’ TaylorMade irons

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At this point, the story of the development of Tiger Woods’ TaylorMade irons has been told and told again. There have been numerous articles, YouTube videos, and even a TV documentary on how they were made—and even a Tour Championship and a Sunday Masters telecast to validate both models.

But I wanted to know the differences and similarities of the two TaylorMade iron models Woods has played since signing with the company in January of 2017: the Phase 1, and the final masterpiece the, P7TW.

Fortunately, in this job, you become friends with a good number of R&D people, so I went to my buddies and TaylorMade Lead Engineers Paul Demkowski and Matt Bovee to fill in some blanks.

This is what they had to say.

Matt Bovee Sr. Manager Product Creation

JW: The Phase 1 iron was based on what previous iron of TW? What inspired it?

MB: The PH1 iron was based off of the set he was playing just prior, the TGR set. Inspiration for the P7TW is really founded in all the years of TW’s career. From the numerous victories, countless hours grinding, and all his majors… the P7TW is really a culmination of what he specifically wants in an iron design after years and years of being the best ball striker in the game.

JW: What was the testing process like going from his TGR into the Phase 1?

MB: The PH1 set was a collaboration between TaylorMade and Mike Taylor with a new cosmetic design we created. We didn’t want to change any significant performance attributes because the immediate goal was to get TW into a TM iron. We partnered with Mike Taylor to help with the creation of PH1 as well as the learning process required for the development of P7TW. For us, it was a learning experience as TW went through his testing protocol for a new set. Making sure everything was dialed in and felt right.

JW: What are the similarities of the two irons, PH1 and P7TW?

MB: There are a lot of similarities between the PH1 and P7TW from a performance perspective. It’s been said before, and I’ll say it again, TW is very, very specific in what he wants. Launch, spin, carry, look, feel…he has every attribute for each iron defined in his head. Nothing more, nothing less. They use the same lofts, lie, scorelines, essentially the same CG, etc.

JW: What kept PH1 from being the “Tiger Iron”?

MB: The PH1 irons were built from an existing forging profile. By using an existing forging he was familiar with it allowed us to minimize variables as we learned and dissected what works best for him. Even after the PH1 iron performance matched what he was looking for, TW requested the MG sole technology for his irons so he could replace them more frequently with much less testing from set to set. We needed to take this into account with a new TM forging design.

*The milled grind sole was designed specifically for this benefit. It has allowed TM to duplicate the sole of irons and wedges which in turn eliminates a number of steps during testing and/or mid season replacement.

JW: The name Phase 1 suggests a new version was to come, was that always a bridge iron into the current?

MB: Yes, we knew designing a TaylorMade iron for him from the ground up would take some time and we needed a “bridge” of sorts while the new design was in development.

JW: When TW began testing irons in the beginning, (knowing the challenge which is well documented) what was the original process like? Who was involved?

Tiger Woods matching things up at The Kingdom in Carlsbad

MB:

  • Participants: Tiger, Tomo Bystedt, Brian Bazzel, Keith Sbarbaro, Paul Demkowski, Mike Taylor, and Matt Bovee.
  • The development process was a longer road than we anticipated. Much back and forth between TM and Mike Taylor to start. We needed to unpack years of learning as to what works best for the Big Cat and what he likes. From that point, it was a lot of back and forth testing of individual sticks. Starting with the 6i and not moving on from that until we got it perfect. It actually took 7 different CNCs prototypes before we nailed the 6i. From there we added in the 3i and the 9i to serves as bookends for design. After these three SKUs got TW’s blessing we filled out the rest of the set.

JW: How many PH1 sets were made?

MB: As far as we know just the 1 set. Mike Taylor would be the only person who would know differently

JW: What are the differences between P1 and P7TW?

MB: The largest differences are:

  • Built from different forgings
  • Addition of MG sole—when Tiger needs replacements due to wear, the Milled Grind soles are exactly the geometry that he needs and so any opportunity for slight variations has been removed. That’s why the P7TW is ultimately Tiger’s gamer irons.
  • Milled channel along the back bar of the iron. Cosmetic was designed to fit with the PSeries.
  • Cosmetic design is different, the back bar geometry is slightly different the milled channel was used in 730 to reposition mass, TWs is a much smaller version of that

JW: Does TW only have input (R&D) on his irons or all the TM irons (forgings of course)

MB: TW’s R&D input on irons has been limited to his P7TWs up to this point…which was extensive. All the way down to a modified font for the sole number making it easier from him to read and therefore more confident he had the right stick. He has provided some input in other categories however, wedges most specifically.

JW: In your opinion is the P7TW the best muscleback TM has ever developed?

MB: “Best” is such a relative term that lies in the eyes of the beholder… It is certainly the most prestigious with the most design iterations and R&D development.

JW: If you could project into the future, what improvements if any could be made to a TW iron?

MB: Because that iron is specific to him and what he wants, there really isn’t any way we could make it better unless his swing or style of play changes. The P7TW is dialed in for TW’s game as it exists today.

Tiger Woods and Keith Sbarboro at The Kingdom

Paul Demkowski, Sr. Product Engineer was the person that worked the closest with Mike Taylor in the development of both models and this is what he had to say

JW: Are you still in close contact with Mike Taylor at Artisan? and if so is it more just to verify info or is it also for future R&D?

PD:  Yes, I’m still in close contact with Mike T. He continues to build the irons for TW. He verifies all the specs as they are built and records the data.

JW: In regards to the  CG placements between P1 and P7TW what is the difference?

PD: CG locations are very close. Couldn’t deviate too much as he would feel the difference and would see it in his ball flight.

JW: Random question but had to ask, did you ever attempt to make TW a specific driving iron?

PD: No, never made a specific TW driving iron. Only thing I did once make a slower P790 UDI for him. He said the standard one went too far. LOL.

It’s also noteworthy that TW’s specs don’t change much but as you can see current set up, the only real shift in his irons is lie angle which will go up one depending on his swing at the time.

Tiger Woods’ Current Iron Specs

All with True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100. Irons tipped 1/4 inch, w/wooden dowels and SST Pure (Scott Garrison on Tour) at exactly 130 grams.

All lengths without grips. (Loft. Lie. Length. Swing Weight)

  • 3-iron: 22.5, 59.5, 38 13/16, D4
  • 4-iron: 25.5, 60, 38 5/16, D4
  • 5-iron: 29, 60.5, 37 13/16, D4
  • 6-iron: 32.5, 61, 37 5/16, D4
  • 7-iron: 36, 61.5, 36 7/8, D4
  • 8-iron: 40.5, 62, 36 5/16, D4
  • 9-iron: 45, 62.5, 35 11/16, D4
  • PW: 49, 63, 35 11/16, D4

Another cool aspect of Tiger’s irons (rarely spoken of) are his shafts. The shafts are True Temper Dynamic Gold Tour Issue X100 with no labels, and they are sorted to exact weights (130 grams) and sent to Scott Garrison (@ScottEGgolf) to SST Pure, then over to David “DR” Richey at Artisan Golf to be built. Lots of cooks in the kitchen, but it’s Tiger, so no doubt totally worth it for all involved!

TaylorMade’s Keith Sbarbaro and Paul Demkowski look on at The Kingdom

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