News

Bryson DeChambeau says he will leave the flag in while he putts in 2019

Published

5 years ago

Nov 1, 2018

Bryson DeChambeau is well known for being a nonconformist in the golfing world, and the 25-year-old lived up to that status once more when he announced that he plans on leaving the pin in when he putts in 2019 as doing so will be permitted under the Rules of Golf. Speaking at a photo shoot with Golf.com, DeChambeau stated that his strategy would depend on the coefficient of restitution of the flagstick (naturally).

“It depends on the COR, the coefficient of restitution of the flagstick. In U.S. Opens, I’ll take it out, and every other Tour event, when it’s fiberglass, I’ll leave it in and bounce that ball against the flagstick if I need to.”

DeChambeau is no stranger to the unorthodox; the American currently competes with irons that are the same length (that of a 7-iron) and same lie angle, as we well know. The physics major is also known to put his golf balls in a bowl of Epson Salts to make sure that they are perfectly round.

Explaining the reasoning behind his new strategy to only putt on the green when the pin is fiberglass, DeChambeau stressed that thicker pins, ala U.S. Open style, will lead to more aggressive rebounding when struck, claiming: “It’s a higher propensity for it to go in the hole if it’s fiberglass compared to metal.”

The four-time winner on the PGA Tour will have to wait until 2019 before he lets his new plan unfold, but DeChambeau is bullish that his scheme will pay off, stating

“The USGA’s gonna have to go back on that one. Like, ‘No! We made the hole bigger!’”

DeChambeau is in action this week at the Shriners Hospitals for Children Open where he began the event with a 5-under par round of 66.

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60 Comments

CrashTestDummy

Nov 3, 2018 at 4:39 pm

I have different thoughts about the flagstick, but am not against what he claims because I haven’t researched it. However, my whole thing is how the pin is oriented. On downhill putts I leave the pin in. I think helps much more than it hurts because of the way the pin is oriented. Above the cup there is an advantage because the pin is slopping away from the player on the low side of the cup, so, the cup is bigger on the high side of the cup. On the flipside on uphill putts, there is a disadvantage because since the pin is leaning toward the player, the cup is slightly smaller on the low side of the cup.

Reply Report comment
- BoB
  
  Nov 5, 2018 at 4:36 am
  
  I believe the new rules will totally slow down the game, theb flag will be out and in all the time , player a always plays with the flagout , player b in on the long putts out on the short putts. Then the wind leaves in from one direction out from another, I play 3 hours by foot 18 holes. The games not going to be quicker for all the rule changes, its the people who have to player quicker. Please leave the rules alone.
  
  What comes next adouble so big hole so that the people need less putts
  
  Reply Report comment
CaoNiMa

Nov 3, 2018 at 2:46 am

You put your hard flag in, soft flag out, in-out, in-out, and shake it all about, you do the hokey pokey and turn the caddies all around, that’s what it’s all about!
“No time for the old in-out, love, I’ve come to read the meter”

Reply Report comment
Craig

Nov 2, 2018 at 9:02 pm

I expect for most players it will end up a bit like chipping. Leave it in for long putts, but for the make-able ones take it out. I guarantee Bryson takes it out on the 3 footers.

Reply Report comment
JP

Nov 2, 2018 at 5:33 pm

Who cares? If it really helps, they will ALL do it. So wait and see…

Reply Report comment
Rick

Nov 2, 2018 at 4:59 pm

The flagstick is like the backboard in basketball. It will never hurt a good shot, and only help a bad one. If you bang one off the stick so hard that it ricochets, it wasn’t going in anyway.

Reply Report comment
- CrashTestDummy
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 5:13 pm
  
  Not necessarily. Flags don’t sit perfectly in the cup and lean. So, they can be leaning depending the slope of where a cup is cut or the wind. The orientation of the flag leaning can make the cup bigger or smaller on one side of the hole which can help or hurt a putt from falling.
  
  Reply Report comment
John

Nov 2, 2018 at 3:30 pm

The day I leave the flag in to putt is the day I give up golf.

Reply Report comment
- Scheiss
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 2:47 am
  
  Goodbye! And good riddance!
  
  Reply Report comment
- Brent
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 8:53 am
  
  Do you still play a balata too?
  
  Reply Report comment
benseattle

Nov 2, 2018 at 2:30 pm

I’m no physics major nor did I do a test with thousands of Pelz-inspired simulated shots nor did I conduct a chipping test with Iron Byron. However, I do know this: I can’t tell you how many HUNDREDS of times I’ve seen smooth rolling chips barely graze a flagstick and send the ball away from the hole — balls that would have DEFINITELY dropped had the flagstick been removed. Sure, a fast-moving skulled chip might fall if it hits the flagstick dead center (if it’s not so hard that it clanks off the stick back toward the player) but a ball rolling toward an empty cup at least has a chance to allow GRAVITY to take effect; not quite the case when the flagstick intercepts it first. I’ve known about the Pelz study for years but as a pretty good chipper, I always remove the pin before trying to hole a chip. Ain’t stopping now.

The slow play deal (pin in, pin out, pin in) could very well manifest itself on the PGA Tour, depending on who’s playing and what they believe. Frankly, I don’t see a big change here: these guys have ALWAYS putted with the flag out… a habit hard to break and doesn’t the hole looks SMALLER when there’s a flagstick jammed in there?

Reply Report comment
- Scheiss
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 2:49 am
  
  A good speed that will catch the back of the cup on the way down by gravity will go in than the same speed that hits the flag, it’ll more than likely ricochet sideways
  
  Reply Report comment
- Pete
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 6:34 am
  
  ‘Definitely dropped…’. But how do you know that? Without doing the thousands of hours of testing?
  
  Reply Report comment
  - Brent
    
    Nov 3, 2018 at 8:55 am
    
    Some people are allergic to facts and science.
    
    Reply Report comment
- Mwa Kali Sana
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 11:04 am
  
  I agree :I’m also an excellent chipper and most of the time I remove the pin if I chip to a flat green :if I chip downslope ,I keep the pin in the hole as a backstop
  
  Reply Report comment
Rich Douglas

Nov 2, 2018 at 2:23 pm

The only reason for pulling the flag on putts from the green is that it’s always been done that way (in our lifetimes, anyway). But it is a silly practice.

First, no other shot mandates this, not even putts from off the green. Why the exception? I can see ALLOWING it, but REQUIRING it? Never made sense.

Second, Dave Pelz showed in research a decade ago that it is always better to leave the flag in, even if the flag is being bent towards you by the wind, unless the wind is so strong it prevents the ball from falling in. (In which case, go into the clubhouse and have a drink.)

The only problem with this rule is that it might slow play as players in a group go back and forth about whether or not they want the pin in. (They do, but they don’t always realize it.)

Reply Report comment
Scott Grossman

Nov 2, 2018 at 1:35 pm

As a golfer, Bryson is something of a physicist.
As a physicist, he is just a golfer.

Reply Report comment
web design or web developer

Nov 2, 2018 at 1:07 pm

Thanks for finally talking about >Bryson DeChambeau says he will leave the flag
in while he putts in 2019 – GolfWRX <Loved it!

Reply Report comment
Leo Vincent

Nov 2, 2018 at 12:19 pm

Once again Bryson is ahead of the curve. Putting with the flag in is advantageous in most situations.It aids in alignment and it is easier to putt at something above ground.Paul Azinger has been saying this for years. As a non – scientific test on a putting green putt at a water bottle or something similar that is smaller than a hole then putt at the hole and i bet you hit the bottle a lot more than you hole it.Everyone i have done this with has. I always putt at something above ground in warm ups and visualize a bottle or can in the hole when playing.Wish they had this rule when i was playing professionally

Reply Report comment
dat

Nov 2, 2018 at 12:07 pm

I’d be fine if he never won again and left the tour to work for NASA. Get out of here with this mumbo jumbo crap.

Reply Report comment
Steven

Nov 2, 2018 at 11:56 am

The PGA need to address this now. The rule designed is for speed of play and not to possibly benefit a player. Bryson is hardly speedy as it is and if nothing elsei he should be penalised for not playing within “the spirit of the game”
The rule as it stands is a joke and bother the USGA & R&A have dropped the ball here.

Reply Report comment
- kevin
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 1:46 pm
  
  I think this is going to backfire on the intent of the rule to speed up play.
  
  This isn’t about Bryson. I think this will lead to slower play. one guys wants it in, then the next wants it out, then the third wants it back in.
  
  I really don’t understand with all the things that could’ve been addressed, why this was a priority. The rule simply should’ve been allowing anyone playing a round ‘by theirselves’ to be able to leave the pin in while on the green and still be conforming relating to posting handicap.
  
  Reply Report comment
  - Simms
    
    Nov 2, 2018 at 2:25 pm
    
    Our club went to the 2019 rules two weeks ago…yes you are 100% correct…the group I played in today ended up 2 holes behind and that leave the pin in take it out thing was the main cause….some of the guys have found how much of an advantage it is even on a five foot put..I am talking a Senior Mens club here…and yes 100% leaving the flag in is a plus for Senior golfer for sure….RULE CHANGE SOON, RIGHT?
    
    Reply Report comment
Curt

Nov 2, 2018 at 11:52 am

Worst tour player ever. Definitely should be banned from tour. I guess I’m wrong but the flag can only be used when you can’t see the hole.

Reply Report comment
- Brent
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 8:57 am
  
  saying worst tour player ever makes you sound extremely ignorant and grossly misinformed. And you are wrong about he rule. Why would you hate on a guy for following the rules?
  
  Reply Report comment
- Mike
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 9:51 am
  
  How would you go about banning him? What would you base the ban on? Maybe while you’re at it you can jail Hillary Clinton for NOT breaking any laws.
  
  Reply Report comment
- Richard Douglas
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 2:56 pm
  
  Really? Worst ever? Worse than Ken Green? Mac O’Grady? Tommy Bolt? Tom Weiskopf?
  
  Yes, you’re wrong.
  
  Reply Report comment
tim

Nov 2, 2018 at 11:47 am

Why doesn’t the PGA Tour just make a tour-only rule that overrides the USGA?

Reply Report comment
- Bill
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 11:51 am
  
  Gianni:
  
  Before being critical of Dechambeau playing practices, you need to win 4 times on the PGA tour.
  
  Reply Report comment
- Curt
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 11:54 am
  
  Should have all kinds of tour only rules since it’s where rules matter.
  
  Reply Report comment
- J Zilla
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 12:42 pm
  
  Because the tour has no control over the majors or WGC (I think) and it probably wouldn’t be a good look to have separate rules on tour vs the biggest events.
  
  Reply Report comment
- Scheiss
  
  Nov 3, 2018 at 2:35 am
  
  They already do have separate rules on Tour. They cut the rough down way shorter, and make it easier for Eldrick to win by allowing him to play courses he likes and avoid the ones he doesn’t.
  
  Reply Report comment
  - DougE
    
    Nov 3, 2018 at 10:18 am
    
    Really? Wait, so only Tiger benefits from shorter rough and can choose to play the courses he wants? Wow, all this time I thought he was just a better player than those other guys. Stupid me. Thanks for clarifying how the rules work Scheiss-ter.
    
    Reply Report comment
  - AggOwl
    
    Nov 5, 2018 at 7:49 am
    
    Eldrick & Alfred both!
    
    Reply Report comment
HDTVMAN

Nov 2, 2018 at 11:44 am

I am really getting sick of this guy!

Reply Report comment
- David C
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 12:10 pm
  
  I love it. Every bit of it EXCEPT his slow play, put him ON THE CLOCK. It’s fine to play by the rules, even if they benefit a player, but all rules should be enforced.
  
  Reply Report comment
David Lehmann

Nov 2, 2018 at 10:17 am

Leave the flag in and sink a putt…. be careful pulling the flag to get your ball. Sometimes the cup will come out also.!!!

Reply Report comment
Henry Adam

Nov 2, 2018 at 10:02 am

Some time ago, an experiment was conducted with an “iron Byron” putting and chipping machine, which showed very clearly that the ball found the bottom of the cup more often with the pin in than with it out.

Other than the CoR of the flagstick itself, many are now tapered, getting thinner at the base, thus directing a ball which strikes it downwards.

Now in my 70’s I remember well playing with the British sized ball (1.62″), prior to the rule change (in the 1970’s) enforcing the use of the larger (American)1.68″ version. Apart from immediately losing distance, there was a noticeable increase in “lip-outs”. This was due in part to larger size, but the effect of increased angular momentum as a ball rolled at given horizontal velocity to the hole. Horseshoe misses increased where the ball appeared to be dropping but managed to climb out again. The Welsh Ryder Cup player, Brian Huggett, appealed to the R&A to increase the size of the hole from its 4.25″ internal diameter to 4.5″, arguing that the rewards of hitting approach shots close were no longer as good. He was ignored. Now, the ball has changed again, with the construction such that the weight distribution is less at the centre and more evenly distributed out to the cover. We have gone from the would balls with a dense sack in the centre to a more uniform construction. This gives more rolling angular momentum and hence the ball rolls further on landing, especially on manicured fairways. There is also the further increase in lip-outs on the green. The hole diameter, arbitrarily based on the outside diameters of drain pipes in Eastern Scotland in the late 1800’s remains at 4.25″, but the saving grace is that modern greens are nothing like those of even 50 years ago, being much smoother, faster and truer.

Reply Report comment
- Henry Adam
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 10:06 am
  
  “This was due in part to larger size, but the effect…” should read “This was due in part to larger size, but also the effect…” and “We have gone from the would balls with a dense sack in the centre..” should read “We have gone from the wound balls with a dense sack in the centre..”
  
  We do not seem able to edit after posting..
  
  Reply Report comment
- Victor Sterner
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 3:50 pm
  
  I believe Pelz did a study and it is the golfers advantage to leave in the pin whenever possible.
  
  Reply Report comment
Seth Mischke

Nov 1, 2018 at 10:10 pm

Flabbergasted…………Look at Zach Johnson, John Deere Classic from a few years back. Flagstick cost him the tourney on the 18th. The boys in the booth were like leave it in, it is stupid to take it out, and I was like Nooooooooooo. THE perfect example of why not to leave it in if you ask me.

Reply Report comment
Mike

Nov 1, 2018 at 9:12 pm

Dave Pelz studied this and has concluded that leaving the flagstick in is an avvantage on ALL shots including a 4 foot putt. Therefore it would be stupid for anyone playing for millions of dollars to ever putt with it out again.

Reply Report comment
TeeBone

Nov 1, 2018 at 8:14 pm

The flagstick might stop a ball that would finish well past, but will generally keep some balls out that might have gone in without the flagstick, regardless of the flexibility of the stick. Prediction: Bryson will do this until he hits a putt that he felt should have gone in, but hit the stick and didn’t. Then he’ll stop.

Reply Report comment
- Johnny Penso
  
  Nov 1, 2018 at 11:30 pm
  
  Do you realize the irony of suggesting DeChambeau will make his decision as to whether to leave the stick in or not based on a whim or a single bad result? ???? ???? ???? ???? ????
  
  Reply Report comment
Scheiss

Nov 1, 2018 at 7:14 pm

I think you should also measure the CT, the characteristic time. Might as well. Then you can use a foam marshmallow ball to make sure it goes in as it hugs the stick on its slide down into the cup

Reply Report comment
hans

Nov 1, 2018 at 7:07 pm

maybe the usga woulda been better off making this a local rule option, like the new 2 stroke penalty OB rule. don’t wanna see caddies on tv constantly shuffling to get the pin in/out depending on the player.

Reply Report comment
- Scheiss
  
  Nov 1, 2018 at 7:17 pm
  
  Aha! You have hit it on the head.
  See, the USGA didn’t think of that when they thought this rule would quicken the pace at the local muni level. They didn’t think that in a 4some, some might leave it in, and others not, and this pulling out and pulling in depending on who’s playing might now make the round take longer to play, especially if the last guy putting always wants it out.
  It’ll be a circus to see the caddies hand it off to each other and ask around who’s leaving it in and who’s not and when it needs to be left in and not, and more traffic around the cup.
  
  Reply Report comment
  - Ty Web
    
    Nov 1, 2018 at 7:38 pm
    
    These two comments right here. I fully expect to see this one changed somehow within a year.
    
    Reply Report comment
  - Marco
    
    Nov 1, 2018 at 11:11 pm
    
    Not to mention how annoying it will be when you are waiting to hit into a green and you see the flag going in and out over and over again.
    
    Reply Report comment
    - Acemandrake
      
      Nov 2, 2018 at 11:58 am
      
      Exactly! Your scenario sounds like “non-ready” golf as the player waiting in the fairway has to observe & wait for the correct time to begin their pre-shot routine.
      
      Reply Report comment
  - Boyo
    
    Nov 2, 2018 at 9:12 am
    
    Right on! I’ve been saying this since I heard of this stupid rule….
    
    Reply Report comment
Allen Wilson

Nov 1, 2018 at 6:55 pm

Back in the days of balata balls, we all floated them in Epsom salt water to see if the CG was actually in the physical middle of the ball.

Reply Report comment
- BIG STU
  
  Nov 2, 2018 at 1:18 pm
  
  Allen Very true and we also carried a gauge to check to see if the ball was still round after a few holes. In fact I still have mine still attached to my old Ping Staff bag
  
  Reply Report comment
Brandon

Nov 1, 2018 at 6:30 pm

Putting with the flag in is like nails on a chalk board to me. I cant stand it when people do this. I know its not rational but I cant even leave the little flags on the practice putting green in.

Reply Report comment
- Charlie
  
  Nov 1, 2018 at 11:09 pm
  
  And 90% of those players don’t put the little flags back in. Nails on the chalkboard…
  
  Reply Report comment
  - Boyo
    
    Nov 2, 2018 at 9:14 am
    
    What about us old men who don’t like bending over to fetch balls on a putting green?
    
    Reply Report comment
    - CaoNiMa
      
      Nov 2, 2018 at 10:55 am
      
      You can’t bend over to get the ball? Don’t play golf. I bet you’re not going to be able to drop the ball from knee height either
      
      Reply Report comment
      - Steven Meyers
        
        Nov 2, 2018 at 2:19 pm
        
        Pretty douchey thing to say to somebody. If you get lucky, maybe you will live long enough to get a bad back.
        
        Reply Report comment
      - Sid
        
        Nov 2, 2018 at 2:38 pm
        
        If you were in my foursome you would be providing us with another hole to stick the flag pole in!
        
        Reply Report comment
    - Thomas A
      
      Nov 2, 2018 at 11:01 am
      
      Get a Fetch putter from Ping!
      
      Reply Report comment

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Full piece.

4. Harbour Town ahead

RBC Heritage field notes, via Adam Stanley of PGATour.com…”Scottie Scheffler is, for now, set to tee it up at the RBC Heritage. He was clear to say that if his wife, Meredith, would go into labor during the Masters, he would head home to be with her, so it’s safe to assume that same rule will stand at Harbour Town. Scheffler has not shot an over-par round all season and has three victories (and one runner-up). He made his debut at Harbour Town last year and finished T11… Matt Fitzpatrick looks to become the first golfer to go back-to-back at the RBC Heritage since Boo Weekley in 2007-08. Fitzpatrick, a playoff victor last year, has two top-10 finishes this season. He has just one missed cut at Harbour Town over the last six years and he finished fourth in 2021 to go along with two more top-15 results in a three-year span (T14 in 2018 and 2020)…”

“Jordan Spieth is hoping to continue his run of fine play at Harbour Town after a playoff loss last season and a playoff win the season prior. Spieth has five top-25 finishes at the RBC Heritage in seven starts… Justin Thomas earned a spot in the field after remaining in the top 30 (he’s No. 30) in the Official World Golf Ranking despite a missed cut at the Masters. Thomas, who finished T25 last season at Harbour Town, has two top 10s on the season… Ludvig Åberg, who is tops in the Aon Next 10, will head to Hilton Head for the first time. Åberg has had a fabulous 2024 campaign thus far with four top 10s (including two runner-up results) and is knocking on the door for a victory… Hideki Matsuyama was the only eligible player who did not commit to the RBC Heritage, while Viktor Hovland – after a missed cut at the Masters – withdrew from the field on Saturday.”

Full piece.

5. Reed’s caddie’s needle

Our Matt Vincenzi…”After a particularly bad drive during his third round on Saturday, Reed’s caddie, Kessler Karain, also his brother-in-law, made a snide but factual comment to Patrick.”

“Your driving has cost us a lot this week,” Karain remarked.

“Reed didn’t disagree and told reporters after the round that there was nothing good about his round…

“A reporter then asked: “It’s a good thing he’s a family member, right?”

“Yeah, exactly. I’d probably be dragging him up that last hole,” Reed said. “I swear.Just what you want to hear as you’re looking at the ball in the tree, and he goes, ‘You need to drive it better.’ Thanks, Kessler. I appreciate it. Great words of wisdom. Drive it better.”

“This may be the last major for Reed for a while, as the 33-year-old has not been invited nor qualified for next month’s PGA Championship.”

Full piece.

6. LIV wants Hovland next?

Ewan Murray for the Guardian…”Rising speculation that Viktor Hovland will be the next high-profile golfer to be coaxed to the LIV tour will increase the need for Ryder Cup Europe to apply a simple qualification process for golfers on the Saudi Arabian-backed circuit.”

“LIV is forging ahead with plans for 2025, which include new events and the recruitment of more players from the PGA and DP World Tours. The rate of turnover is likely to be increased by the number of golfers who had three-year contracts when joining LIV, which will expire at the end of 2024.”

“Chatter on the range at the LIV event in Miami this month and again at the Masters largely surrounded Hovland, the world No 6 who starred for Europe in the defeat of the United States in Rome last year. Jon Rahm and Tyrrell Hatton, who also played in that team, have subsequently joined LIV. Hovland missed the cut at the Masters and promptly withdrew from the PGA Tour’s $20m stop in Hilton Head this week.”

Full piece.

7. Rory’s management: LIV reports are ‘fake news’

Brian Keogh for the Irish Independent…”A report that Rory McIlroy was on the verge of an $850million move to LIV Golf has been slammed as “fake news” by his management.

“Fake news. Zero truth,” McIlroy’s manager Sean O’Flaherty said in an email.

London financial paper “City AM” reported today that sources have told them that McIlroy “could” join LIV Golf

The paper reported that “two separate sources have told City AM that they believe a deal is close. It is claimed that LIV Golf chiefs have offered world No2 McIlroy an eye-watering $850m to join, plus around two per cent equity in the competition.”

Full piece.