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Tiger Woods’ North Carolina course is on hold…perhaps permanently

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Tiger Woods’ North Carolina course isn’t happening, at least not now. To put it another way, The Cliffs at High Carolina hasn’t quite fallen off a cliff, but it’s teetering on the edge. The project is on hold for the immediate future, per the Asheville Citizen-Times.

Announced back in 2007, The Cliffs was to feature a Tiger Woods-designed golf course and ~1,000 luxury homes. It was to be Woods first U.S. course–an honor which now belongs to Bluejack National.

The Cliffs Clubs Managing Partner David Sawyer says he fields the “what’s going on” query regularly.

“We get asked that question a lot by our members…We tell them (High Carolina) is sitting on the shelf right now and we’re focusing on our current communities and developments within our current communities.”

Sawyer also said of the project: “I’m sure it will find its way to the development track eventually.”

We shall see.

The 665-acre property is currently listed for sale by Carolina Mountain Properties LLC for $15.9 million, down from the $24 million it was listed for in 2016. The 2008 financial crisis and Woods’ infidelity scandal are commonly offered as explanations for why the project never got off the ground.

Woods is known to be involved with nine design projects. Bluejack National, El Cardonal, The Oasis Short Course have been built. Jack’s Bay, Trump World Golf Club Dubai, South Shore and Jackson Park (restoration), Pacific Links, The Oasis at Diamante, and Payne’s Valley are in the works.

What say you, GolfWRXers from the Tar Heel State? What’s the scuttlebutt? Do you think this course gets built?

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8 Comments

8 Comments

  1. Hedley Lamarr

    May 5, 2018 at 5:22 pm

    I went to The Cliffs at the end of 2009 and was amazed anything had been built there. At least 25 minutes out of Asheville on a poor road at that time. I thought why would you want to live here? The next day Tiger crashed his SUV trying to get away from Erin!

  2. ChipNRun

    May 4, 2018 at 8:05 pm

    My wife and I have a time share in Myrtle Beach, SC, which is about 300 miles away from Asheville. In 2017, MB had three upscale neighborhood development clubs which were in trouble. Part of the problem: seniors looking to downsize had trouble finding buyers for their mansions.

    In contrast, Myrtle Beach semi-private clubs surrounded by modest but nice 2,000 sq.ft. homes seem to be doing fine.

    Of note, Chinese investors have bought some 20 struggling Myrtle Beach zone courses in the past few years. Part of the problem can be capital structure of the golf clubs (see article link at end).

    Another problem nationwide is shafting tastes. Many people nowadays want somewhat smaller homes. If people went into a 3,500 sq. ft. house circa 1998, they may struggle to find buyers who will cash them out at their desired price point.

    Ben, see if you can get comments from an Asheville area real estate agent. It might be that luxury golf is overbuilt in Asheville area. Also, upscale country club developments anywhere can easily end up overleveraged. If developers don’t sell enough homes to establish the target private-equity membership level, things can fall apart quickly.

    So, it may be more of a real estate problem than a golf problem.

    Here is an article on the topic by Concert Golf Partners, via the National Gold Foundation:
    http://www.concertgolfpartners.com/articles/real-estate-value.html

  3. Johnston

    May 4, 2018 at 4:00 pm

    Glad to see some trouble in the up scale golf market…we here in California are loosing public courses to housing projects at a rate you will not have to worry about declining interest in golf because the few public courses left by 2025 will be so few they will be bale to water the courses and still make a profit…

    • ChipNRun

      May 4, 2018 at 8:08 pm

      Go east, young man!

      In Missouri, we have golf, water and decent-priced housing.

      • Elitist Liberal

        May 5, 2018 at 10:09 pm

        But you also have….. Missouri

        • ChipNRun

          May 6, 2018 at 11:52 pm

          What’s not to like? Tourists from Cal State – Irvine like to spend vacation time here protesting.

  4. lance

    May 4, 2018 at 3:00 pm

    Our beloved game of Golf will suffer irreparable if this Tiger designed golf course fails to be built. It will be a national catastrophe … a black blemish on our sport … a shameful failure that will diminish the game of Golf.

  5. 2putttom

    May 4, 2018 at 2:03 pm

    1000 luxury homes? thats old school. who’s gonna invest in multi million dollars homes in a sport that has declining #’s

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19th Hole

Ricky Barnes DQd at the Byron Nelson

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Ricky Barnes took a trip to Dairy Queen at the AT&T Byron Nelson. Barnes was disqualified following his second round 1-over 72. He signed for a three at the par-4 sixth hole, when in fact he had made a par.

Ultimately, he won’t rue his impromptu trip to get a Blizzard: Barnes was 3 over and was in no danger of making the cut.

Because this is the world we live in, Barnes apparently found out about the DQ via LuckyTrout Golf Pool on Twitter.

Of course, no scorecard error will ever top “What a stupid I am,” Roberto De Vicenzo signing for 66 when he shot 65, handing the green jacket to Bob Goalby at the 1968 Masters. Such an unfortunate legacy for a man who won hundreds of tournaments around the world.

Also unfortunate: Ricky Barnes is on the way for being remembered as a man who never lived up to the promise he showed at that same tournament, The Masters, as an amateur.

Let’s hope that changes.

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WATCH/LOOK AWAY: Jordan Spieth misses a 15-inch putt

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Aren’t you glad there isn’t video of all the 15-inch putts you’ve missed? I certainly am.

Unfortunately for Jordan Spieth, his failed attempt from little more than a foot at the Byron Nelson was captured on video, and it will exist on the internet for all eternity.

Spieth, who has struggled with the flatstick lately, stood over a short par putt at the par-4 15th hole, and well…

Spieth is currently 183rd on the PGA Tour this season in strokes gained: putting, losing .412 strokes per round to the field on the greens.

But at least he hit the hole, right?

Here’s the offending weapon: Spieth’s trusty Scotty Cameron 009.

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GolfWRX members debate: What should the World Golf Hall of Fame criteria be?

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There have been a couple of controversial inclusions on the World Golf Hall of Fame. This isn’t to rehash, say, Fred Couples earning a spot, but rather, take a look at entry criteria.

More specifically, GolfWRX member playar32 writes

“I know the actual criteria is 15 tour wins, or 2 majors/Players championship. But what’s YOUR minimum?…For example, if a player won a “B” tournament every year (the one opposite a WGC event), every year in a row for 15 years, but missed the cut in every other event, would you still considered them HOF?”

It’s an interesting point. Specifically, the World Golf Hall of Fame criteria for an active male golfer is as follows.

“A player must have a cumulative total of 15 or more official victories on any of the original members of the International Federation of PGA Tours (PGA TOUR, European Tour, Japan Golf Tour, Sunshine Tour, Asian Tour and PGA of Australasia) OR at least two victories among the following events: The Masters, THE PLAYERS Championship, the U.S. Open, The Open Championship and the PGA Championship.”

Further, a player must be at least 50 or five years removed from competition.

Here are some other WRX members’ takes.

Bladehunter says

“15 tour wins and 2 majors for me. Otherwise almost every 1 major winner out there is in.”

McCann1 says

“If we won’t remember your name without the HOF in 50 years I think you shouldn’t be in.”

Fowlerscousin says

“If any of these three criteria are met: 3 or more majors. Minimum 5 Ryder cup appearances. 15 tour victories.”

Hawkeye77 says

“Whatever the criteria are, don’t ever think about it unless someone whose speech I want to hear gets in.’

Golfer929 has more stringent standards

“20 Wins. 3 Majors. 2 Ryder Cup/President Cup appearances. 100 total weeks inside Top 50 OWGR.”

Golfgirlrobin says

“I’d like to see them go to some sort of point system like the LPGA uses. Factor in everything that’s important and let the chips fall where they may.”

You’ll want to check out the rest of what GolfWRX members have to say in the thread.

There are a ton off questions to consider when thinking about which current/recent players should make the HoF.

A few…

1. Should the standards be on par with other sports? If so, what does that look like?
2. If the WGHOF should be more/less stringent, why?
3. How important are major victories? Why two and not three?
4. Why 15 wins and not 10? Or 20?

All important questions, and ones which the golf fans of the world should be able to weigh in on, rather than merely a selection committee of 16 people.

Let us know what you think, GolfWRX members!

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