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19th Hole

Should Jack Nicklaus stop talking about rolling back the ball? GolfWRX members debate.



Oh boy. Shots fired at the Golden Bear! The game’s most esteemed elder statesman continues to lobby for a rollback of the golf ball, whilst citing a list of the modern ball’s negative consequences, and some GolfWRX members have heard enough.

Daniel32293 leads the charge in a thread titled “Jack Just Won’t Give Up.” Here’s what he says about the 18-time major champion’s advocacy.

“I am so sick and tired of Jack complaining about the golf ball. Jack drove the ball 300 yards.. it is no secret that he was long.. He is quite frankly annoying on tv.

“Give it a rest and let these guys play. The TOUR has the best talent it has seen top to bottom ever. Golf has evolved and so should Jack. Quit being the grumpy old man barking about how back in his day…He had his day in the sun, but that sun has set, so be more appreciative than negative.”

No, sir! If you come at the Golden Bear, you best not miss. Daniel is out of his gourd, right? Not so fast. 27 GolfWRX members liked his original post (which leads off a thread that’s already) six pages and more than 160 replies long in only its second day of existence).

Falken19150 agrees, suggesting ulterior motives for Mr. Nicklaus’ complaints.

“Completely agree. Although remember you can’t have a golf course taking up precious land that can be sold to some private equity jerks so they can build condos and make millions…”

And Ashley Schaeffer says

“He’s always been a whiner.”

JaNelson38 thinks Nicklaus is missing an opportunity to put his money where his mouth is.

“The Nicklaus Design Group continues to build 7400 yard golf courses all over the world with no problem. Perhaps if Jack wants to be a factor in changing the game before he passes, he can start designing world class courses that play to 7000 yards or less on a regular basis. Start emphasizing courses that are second-shot courses, not driver-wedge tracks. More doglegs. More bunkers or hazards near landing areas. More risk reward off the tee.”

GioGuy21 says

“Jack at this point seems like that senile old man complaining the kids (who are walking) are running up and down the street.”

Of course, there are plenty of WRX members who are keen to defend golf’s greatest major champion.

Wobgon asks sarcastically

“Who is Jack Nicklaus to be voicing his opinion on anything golf related?”

Hawkeye77 writes

“Nicklaus is hardly an angry or bitter old man. He respects golf and its traditions and is also pretty darn encouraging of up and coming and already here younger generations of players, it just isn’t that hard to find the evidence and take in some of what he has to say.”

Jagpilotohio provides a context for opinion-giving

“Jack is a living God and we are only mere mortals. If he wishes to speak about the golf ball, shut up and let the man speak.”

Perhaps, DavePelz24 had the best post of all in the context department

“There are so many treasures we have in life that are people who impact our lives. Some raise us, some teach us, some inspire us. We’ve lost gifts like Seve, Arnie and so many others. Enjoy Jack while he’s with us because he’ll be gone too soon.”

And these replies are all from the first page, folks. This thread is shaping up to be an all-time great, which is appropriate considering its subject.

You’ll want to read the replies and share your opinion, as few are on the fence in their feelings about Mr. Nicklaus’ leading of the Rollback Brigade.

Check out the thread. 

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  1. MD2

    Mar 1, 2018 at 5:44 pm

    Snore. Jack wants shorter balls and 12 hole courses… because he is now a designer. Smaller courses = cheaper plots of land, less watering and maintenance fees. Fewer holes = faster rounds, more groups, and most importantly — More $$$ for him. Leans on his legacy to push his own self-serving agenda. Grow the rough and move some bunkers.

  2. JThunder

    Mar 1, 2018 at 2:10 am

    I would LOVE to see the PGA Tour bifurcate the rules and adopt a Tour Ball.

    I think the distance should max out around 275, to make all the courses “relevant” again.

    Then see if 700,000 people show up for the Waste Management Open to watch “Tour Pros” hit the ball about as far as the best driver in their weekend foursome.

    Making the professional game less impressive for the average fans – to appease the rabid traditionalists and course designers – should be a GREAT way to “grow the game”.

    Rolling back the ball for *everyone* would be a disaster of epic proportions. Might as well ban non-persimmon drivers and bring back the stymie rule while you’re at it.

  3. Walt Pendleton

    Feb 28, 2018 at 2:43 pm

    Gentlemen…With all due respect, spectators pay the bills in every sport. If we’re talking The PGA Tour, patrons of the game want drama i.e. like Reed and Rory provided during The 2016 Ryder Cup. With that said, if you don’t grow the rough, lengthen a few holes, select or build new tee boxes, etc…you’re going have this debate forever! Making a golf course obsolete because a few non-human players can hit 600 yard par 5s is OK. Just make’m hit the fairway to do so! Par should NEVER be 68 due to short par fives! FYI – and making par threes 230 yards is boring gof and not the answer. Follow the money gentlemen and give the patrons what they want. That’s the ONLY way to insure the future of the golf doesn’t become an elite game for the rich…again!

  4. ewfnick

    Feb 28, 2018 at 2:23 pm

    Golf has become boring for the average viewer, watching hole after hole play as a driver/wedge, all we ever get to see is putting and let us be honest, that is THE most boring part of the game, either watching or playing

  5. Rich

    Feb 28, 2018 at 12:51 pm

    Jack is a self indulged snob. He wants to be remembered as the best ever and won’t concede that players are in much better shape .Equipment is not the issue ,it’s physical abilities ,improvement in training and mechanics is why distance has improved.

  6. Andrew

    Feb 28, 2018 at 12:31 pm

    Your golf course designs do not match your ball philosophy, Jack. Well played.

  7. Dave

    Feb 28, 2018 at 12:16 pm

    Jack did not average 300 yds. In his prime in 1968 he averaged 276.

  8. BC

    Feb 28, 2018 at 11:54 am

    Jack is spot on and he should keep saying it until some of those Suits at the PGA, USGA and RNA listen! I don’t watch golf to see guys hit it 400 yards, its more interesting to watch the true shotmakers and short game wizards!

  9. Ron

    Feb 28, 2018 at 10:11 am

    Yes the second best golfer of all time should shut his old mouth. What does it matter to him?

  10. Jonathan Taylor Thomas

    Feb 28, 2018 at 7:27 am

    I agree with Jack about this. Jessica most likely had plastic surgery because her sister was better looking than her. She was jealous, now she is the hot one post surgery.

  11. JasonHolmes

    Feb 28, 2018 at 7:10 am

    Jack owns an a golf architecture/design firm AND owns a golf ball company.

    So lets not pretend he’s some sort of unbiased opinion here.

    BTW if Jack thinks its such a great idea for Titleist to chuck millions of R+D dollars into researching the ball, why doesnt he volunteer for his company to do it? So its OK to run down Titleist? What a hypocrite

  12. Simms

    Feb 28, 2018 at 1:12 am

    This past weeks tournament proved the course set up is the answer not the golf ball…Pros play a different game and courses need to be set up differently for them….I play with Seniors all over 60 and I can assure you no one in this club needs a ball to go less distance…amateur golf is doing fine with the ball…..sure some guys are out there 300 yards getting set to miss the green with their wedge and or 3 putt. Course set up for amateurs need to keep pace of play in mind always….

  13. Ogo

    Feb 28, 2018 at 12:55 am

    Juice up the ball because the spectators at tour events want to see the ball go far. Then the duffers buy those overpriced balls with the deluded hope they will feel and do what the pros do… and then lose them in the rough or pond. Money makes the world go round… didn’t ya know?!!

  14. dj

    Feb 27, 2018 at 8:16 pm

    Are we going to end up with two different golf balls? One for the pros and another for the average Joe? Who spends more money on golf? If the manufactures come out with a limited flight ball, the average Joe will buy from another manufacturer. Trust me the market will bear some manufacturer that will supply to the general public which spends way more money on golf equipment.

  15. Ricardo Rosales

    Feb 27, 2018 at 8:00 pm

    I agree about refining the golf ball only if they refine the golf courses too. If the course yardage is well over 7,000 then the mid-low driving pro needs the advantage of the tee. If, more course under 6,800 yds with more doglegs and green side hazards are built or redesigned we can start talking about scaling back on the balls. But, one thing for sure. Never, never disrespect the “Bear” on his well earned opinion.

    • D.Arnie

      Feb 27, 2018 at 9:29 pm

      I’m in my mid fifties now and cannot believe these people’s comments and how disrespectful they are towards Jack Nicklaus. Even the author of this piece should be ashamed. There has been several articles on this site lately that have been encouraging dissention and division and is just plain shameful to see this type of “journalism”. Golf does not need this type of childish interference imo. Keyboard warring is ridiculous.
      I played college golf, mini tours and also was a Class A PGA professional. There is no doubt in my mind that the ball needs gearing back. It is the only solution. Distance is relevant mostly to your swingspeed. You will still be long or short just as you are now. Big deal. Move up a set of tees if it bothers you. The game cannot thrive on building 8,000 yard courses and maintaining them.

      • JThunder

        Mar 1, 2018 at 2:05 am

        We are in the Golden Age of Disrespect – at least in the USA, led directly from DC… The Internet, additionally, has always been about voicing your opinion – whether it makes sense or anyone else wants to hear it – without respect for others. If the Internet was non-anonymous from Day 1, imagine how different that might be.

        As for Jack, he deserves the utmost respect for his playing career. I don’t know if that’s as true for his course designs. His opinions on the golf ball? His last PGA Tour win was 31 years ago. I would much more like to know what current players think – not long-retired legends of the game. I believe most of his concern is about his course designs, and profit margins. All designers need to think about challenge over length. The Tour’s great short Par 4s prove that. And unless you make a ball that flies shorter for more swing speed, the long hitters will still be the longest hitters, and the short hitters will still have longer clubs into the greens.

    • Richard Ramon

      Feb 27, 2018 at 9:53 pm

      I’m Jack’s age, I saw him when he was a fat slob coming on to the tour. He was a ego maniac then and is nothing but a old man eaten up with short man’s syndrome. Whoever put Jack and Several in the same conversation with Arnold is sadly mistaken. Arnold was class. Seve coughed in everyone’s backswing and was nothing but a jerk. His version of golf was a far cry from a respectful game played fairly. Jack invented slow play. We yelled at the black and white TV in the clubhouse ” hit the blank ball” hundreds of times at his slow play. There will never be another Arnie or Lee, true legends and just down to earth good people. Ego maniac short idiots like Jack are like weeds, everywhere.Golf is like every other sport, young men today are bigger, stronger and faster. Get over it Jack, shut up and sit down. Let us enjoy watching guys do things in golf we can’t do. You were never the athlete, the size or had the strength of a Dustin Johnson or Tiger woods. Just shut up

      • Bruce Ferguson

        Feb 28, 2018 at 12:51 pm

        Jack played football in his youth and a tennis player all his adult life. True, he’s not a gym ape, but look where that got Tiger. I’ve never seen evidence of Jack having a bloated ego . . . at least from a spectators perspective. In the early days playing Arnie, Arnie’s Army used to heckle Jack from the galleries. Jack took it. To Arnie’s credit, he quickly had them stop the heckling, respecting Jack as a competitor and embracing him as a friend. You admire Arnie so much, but evidently you don’t appreciate his choice of friends.

        Richard, Bro . . . take a chill pill

      • dlygrisse

        Feb 28, 2018 at 2:03 pm

        Weird post. First of all, Jack is taller than Arnie was or Lee…so THERE!
        Secondly your rhetoric makes me believe you are the egomaniac. In fact I would really appreciate it if you were the one who “shut of and sit down”

        If you really dig into the personal lives of ALL the people you mention, I think your view would be 180 degrees different.

      • frank cichon

        Feb 28, 2018 at 5:19 pm

        Hope you never had kids. The world does NOT need more people like you. Instead of membership in the USGA it sounds like you are a lifetime member of NRA….very sad from someone your age!

      • JD

        Feb 28, 2018 at 9:44 pm

        The only Jerk is you.

      • Crazy About Golf

        Mar 1, 2018 at 10:37 pm

        And the Jerk of the Day Award goes to…….Richard. How disrespectful you are to a legend of the game.

    • Ogo

      Feb 28, 2018 at 1:01 am

      Recently played on a 7300 yard course and simply made adjustments to manage my game.
      The par 5s became par 6s, the par 4s became par 5s and the par 3s were par 4s or manageable par 3s.
      I played the par 71 course in 89 and left happy. Next time I play that course I will have a new set of PXGs and score 70 guaranteed! 8-:

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19th Hole

GolfWRX Classifieds Spotlight (06/05/20) – Scotty Cameron, TaylorMade Tour, GC Quad



At GolfWRX, we love golf equipment plain and simple

We are a community of like-minded individuals that all experience and express our enjoyment for the game in many ways. It’s that sense of community that drives day-to-day interactions in the forums on topics that range from best driver to what marker you use to mark your ball, it even allows us to share another thing – the equipment itself.

One of the best ways to enjoy equipment is to experiment and whether you are looking to buy-sell-or trade (as the name suggests) you can find almost anything in the GolfWRX BST Forum. From one-off custom Scotty Cameron Circle T putters, to iron sets, wedges, and barely hit drivers, you can find it all in our constantly updated marketplace.

These are some of the latest cool finds from the GolfWRX BST, and if you are curious about the rules to participate in the BST Forum you can check them out here: GolfWRX BST Rules

Member jadedennill – Scotty Cameron CX-01

What a great price for a limited edition putter. This Scotty Cameron CX-01 is only 1 of 500 and offers a very unique look in a higher MOI blade design.

To see the full listing and additional pictures check out the link here: Scotty CSX-01

Member nc2lane – Foresight GC Quad

This ad feels like the classic episode of “The Simpsons,” where the family travels to a quiet east coast beach town and Lisa reinvents herself for the summer. To reinvent her look she takes her mom shopping for clothes and while off-camera you here “Mom come quick BRING MONEY!”

Well, you better bring the money, because state-of-the-art launch monitors don’t come cheap, but you certainly get what you pay for with the GC Quad from Foresight.

To see the full listing and additional pictures check out the link here: GC Quad Launch Monitor

Member TheGriftKings – Unicorn 2015 8.5 M2 Driver

This is still one of the best and most sought after TaylorMade tour issue drivers of all time. This head is in amazing shape—basically new and at 8.5 degrees of loft, it’s even rarer.

To see the full listing and additional pictures check out the link here: TaylorMade M2 Driver

Remember that you can always browse the GolfWRX Classifieds any time here in our forums: GolfWRX Classifieds 

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19th Hole

Check out Tiger Woods’ incredible handicap index history from his entire career



Ever wondered what Tiger Woods’ handicap index has been throughout his career? Well, one statistician, Lou Stagner of Decade Golf, did some serious number crunching and the results are fascinating. 

From 1996 right through to today, Stagner used course rating and slope for each course in his research and calculated a differential for each round to find out what Tiger’s index would have been each year of his pro career.

You can see the impressive results in the graph below.


The results show that Woods was at his very best handicap wise in 2008 when he bossed a +9.4 index, his average index was +6.7 throughout his career, his current index is 6.5, and as Stagner noted, he was +7 or better for 35% of his handicap revisions.

It’s also worth noting that the results are not adjusted to tournament conditions. Not bad, eh?


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19th Hole

Henrik Stenson: Fan-less Ryder Cup is better than nothing




On Thursday, ‘Henrik Stenson Almost An Hour’ podcast presented by Callaway Golf aired for the first time, with the Swede sharing his thoughts on his playing schedule going forward, the tour’s return as well as a potential spectator-less Ryder Cup.

On the new bi-weekly podcast, Stenson described the potential of a Ryder Cup with no fans as being “very blunt”, but did stress that even a spectator-less Ryder Cup is better than no Ryder Cup at all.

“For the atmosphere and for the feeling, for us as players that would be, very blunt, it would be something that you can’t really imagine at this point.

Then looking at the bigger picture, if that’s the only way that the Ryder Cup can go ahead, and if it’s not an option to play it next year with crowds, with fans, then I would prefer to play a Ryder Cup than to not play a Ryder Cup.”

Stenson revealed he wouldn’t be returning to the U.S. until mid-July, and he’s expecting the first couple of week’s back to be “messy” as the players and officials adjust to the new conditions.

“I’ll sit out a few weeks and see how everything gets going. I think it might be a little bit more messy the first couple of weeks as well before everyone finds their bearings with testing and everything.

So I’ll watch it from the couch the first couple of weeks and most likely then with the current restrictions I will travel over in mid-July to Lake Nona. I’ll have a couple of weeks of practice and then I’ll tee it up at the WGC FedEx tournament in Memphis.”

Once the 44-year-old does get Stateside again, you can expect to see him often as he plans to play “every week up until Christmas.”

“And once I get over and start playing, I can pretty much play every week up until Christmas. Because (there’s) going to be lots of golf tournaments, and it’s not going to be a shortage. So I’m just kind of tweaking my return a little bit and will probably play a bit more in the fall.”

‘Henrik Stenson Almost An Hour’ podcast presented by Callaway Golf will air every other Thursday here.


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