Tour News

Luke Donald disses “modern” courses, praises traditional layouts

Published

8 years ago

Mar 14, 2016

Luke Donald, who finished 22nd at the Valspar Championship, tweeted after his round, “This Florida swing is a grind! #parsaregood.” He then fired off a tweet that’s garnered considerably more attention.

The Northwestern University alum added:

Love that the traditional courses are holding their own. Honda -9, Doral -12, Valspar -7? Modern architects take note!

— Luke Donald (@LukeDonald) March 13, 2016

A first point here. Donald got some flack in the Twitterverse for the apparent insinuation that the 2014 Gil Hanse-redesigned Trump National Doral is “traditional” course, and further, that any of the courses are “traditional,” in a classic/Golden Era sense. We’ll let Donald clarify.

My point was that Doral is a modern course designed to be really tough, yet the older courses hold their own https://t.co/OgHhg8EmeP — Luke Donald (@LukeDonald) March 13, 2016

When Golfweek’s Bradley S. Klein expressed indignation that any of the courses — the most recent of which was built in 1962 — would be characterized as “traditional,” Donald clarified.

“Traditional in the sense they were built before the technology boom where ball go far!”

So, he’s holding up Doral on the one side and PGA National, Innisbrook on the other. And by “traditional” he means prior to, probably, the metal-wood era.

Before digging into the debate, let’s look at the length element. Here are the yardages to which the courses played this year.

PGA National (Champion): Par 70: 7,140
Innisbrook Resort (Copperhead): Par 71: 7,340
Trump National Doral: Par 72: 7,543

And the scoring averages to par…

PGA National (Champion) +1.768
Innisbrook Resort (Copperhead) +1.618
Trump National Doral +0.854

And regarding construction: PGA National’s Champion Course was designed by George and Tom Fazio 1981. Re-grassed last year, the Nicklaus Company reworked the course twice. Innisbrook’s Copperhead course was designed by Larry Packard in 1972, and was re-grassed last year. Trump National Doral, a 1962 Dick Wilson design, was renovated by Gil Hanse in 2013-14.

There’s no debating that all three courses play tough: The tracks comprise three of the four most difficult venues of the 23 tracks played this year. In 2015, PGA National was the fourth-toughest course (+1.832), Innisbrook was the 10th (+0.863).

An interesting question as well: Players were clearly uncomfortable with the slower green speeds at both the Champion Course and the Copperhead Course. And seemed to have difficulty with the new bunker sand at the latter. After maturation yields Bermuda putting surfaces and bunkers they’re more comfortable with, will scores improve significantly or negligibly?

And a second question: The Champion Course and Doral were both substantially redone. However, there are aesthetic/design similarities between the Champion Course and the Copperhead Course that aren’t shared with water-laden Trump National Doral. Still, do you buy Donald’s distinction between “modern” Doral and “traditional” Innisbrook and PGA National?

Golf course architecture enthusiasts, debate!

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22 Comments

NikkoAZ15

Mar 22, 2016 at 11:47 pm

Luke play to your strengths. Take a look at Zach Johnson for example he knows he’s not the longest player in the feild but he attacks the course from 100 yards and in. Caugh…Caugh..something you did when you were world number 1.#Course Management

Reply Report comment
larrybud

Mar 21, 2016 at 11:34 am

Funny how when Phil trashes “modern” courses everybody ignores the fact that he can still bomb it out there (top 40 of driving distance).

Of course LD is right. The trend of modern courses equal ridiculous expense to keep them going, which results in higher greens fees.

Reply Report comment
Johny Thunder

Mar 15, 2016 at 8:27 pm

Luke’s Tweets do not amount to a “diss”. Lovely that Golfwrx is firmly in the sensationalist school of media, taking lessons perhaps from Fox News.

Reply Report comment
- Tom
  
  Mar 21, 2016 at 10:55 am
  
  Or CNN,CBS,ABC …..
  
  Reply Report comment
rc

Mar 15, 2016 at 7:52 pm

Anyone know what Mizuno iron he’s got in that photo…
MP____???

Reply Report comment
KK

Mar 15, 2016 at 7:27 pm

LOL, of course he loves traditional courses. Luke is short and crooked off the tee compared to the top players. But then, he has not been in the group of top players in 4 or 5 years.

Reply Report comment
Ted Frick

Mar 15, 2016 at 11:57 am

I think a perfect example of this is Merion for the US Open, under 7000 yards and it was of the best and most exciting US Opens there has been for a while. Also all the players enjoyed playing it.

Reply Report comment
SC

Mar 15, 2016 at 9:43 am

Luke has won the Valspar (I believe it was the PODS when he won) at Copperhead before and was in contention a few other times in the past before the changes, so I can see his thoughts about “Traditional vs Modern” courses. I live a 3 wood away from the Innisbrook resort and have played it multiple times. When the owners decided the revamp the course after last years tournament, the area was drenched by feet of rain over the start and middle of the rebuild, and the contractors had to start over in some areas. Hat’s off to them for getting the course ready for the tournament. As far as Luke’s thoughts and most of his peers regarding the bunkers and greens, they were playing heavier and slower than in years past. I noticed several players struggling from both these spots as well. Florida has a rich history of golf and in the county that the Innisbrook Resort resides we have 5 original Donald Ross golf courses, not to mention that one was the first private course in all of Florida. Innisbrook plays hard because of the terrain, it’s very hilly and unlike a lot of courses in Florida. The course being all Bermudagrass and Tif Dwarf greens is not easy and I personally like seeing the changes affect the players so they don’t run away with ridiculous scores. I’ve played Doral, National (in the Honda pro-am) and Bayhill this week and you won’t find a tougher, nicer, risk reward set of courses on the PGA tour. Florida swing!!

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Nor

Mar 15, 2016 at 8:49 am

Well, this is one article regarding social media usage I can get behind.
Additional information and background provided was great. Thanks, Ben!

Reply Report comment
ooffa

Mar 15, 2016 at 8:15 am

Luke Who? Haven’t seen that name in a while. Dude is way past his prime. Shuffle off Luke. Tee it up with the seniors already. Three day tournaments, shorter courses, you might even drive it past a few of those old guys.

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- larrybud
  
  Mar 21, 2016 at 11:32 am
  
  lol, he’s 38 years old, in the top 100 in the world. Never knew anybody who had a bug up their butt about LD.
  
  Reply Report comment
Walter

Mar 14, 2016 at 9:56 pm

Luke may be mad he has been chasing distance for the last few years with little success.

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mike

Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 pm

well of course a shorter hitter on tour is not going to like a longer lay out. This isnt really news at all

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George

Mar 14, 2016 at 1:18 pm

I prefer traditional layouts. I’ve played courses with water left and right of the Driver landing zone, where I had to hit a shorter club from the tee just to leave a 3W into the green. WTH! Classic Links courses don’t need a lot of water hazards or even huge bunkers. Just tighten the fairways and let the rough decide. There’s a reason why the US Open is more interesting than the usual bomb and dart-throwing.

Reply Report comment
M....

Mar 14, 2016 at 12:25 pm

lol @ mitch. You wish you were .05% the golfer Luke Donald is.

Reply Report comment
- mitch
  
  Mar 14, 2016 at 1:23 pm
  
  @m…. well me and luke have won the same amount of tourneys in the past couple years so ya we are on the same level.
  
  Reply Report comment
  - mlecuni
    
    Mar 14, 2016 at 3:24 pm
    
    i’m not familiar with your name, Are you also a former world number 1 golfer ?
    
    Reply Report comment
mitch

Mar 14, 2016 at 12:21 pm

keep crying Luke! That is what you are best at!

Reply Report comment
- Mark Moser
  
  Mar 14, 2016 at 1:12 pm
  
  Another whining European Player!!! Stay on your side of the pond!!
  
  Reply Report comment
  - mlecuni
    
    Mar 14, 2016 at 3:19 pm
    
    Did you both have read mr donald tweets ? Since when expressing an opinion is crying or whining ?
    
    Reply Report comment
  - Jimmeh
    
    Mar 14, 2016 at 5:22 pm
    
    You guys have to win the Ryder Cup somehow, right? 😉
    
    Reply Report comment
- RG
  
  Mar 14, 2016 at 1:16 pm
  
  No, what he’s best at is getting the ball up and down. He’s also absolutely right that traditional tracks like Riviera can still hold up and that longer is not always better. You are absolutely a joke…
  
  Reply Report comment

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